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Redemption Paladin
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7067426" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Would you be alright with it if it was allowed a Charisma Saving Throw?</p><p></p><p>Also, thoughts on below?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> [MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION] , couple thoughts:</p><p> </p><p>1) I don’t have my books available but I’m fairly certain that one or both of Fey Presence and Hypnotic Gaze aren’t called out as supernatural or magical effects in their descriptions. Does this mean these two are not/may not be magical? I think that would be pretty contentious.</p><p> </p><p>2) I’m sure you know personally that I fully support the Frightened, Charmed (and plenty of other conditions including all sorts of Forced Movement) being achieved by mundane means. 5e has obviously supported this paradigm as well.</p><p> </p><p>3) Finally, since we’re going there, I’m going to get into what I was intimating above. If this Paladin ability is mundane rather than magical, I fully expect there to be an utter outcry by the player base because of the Come and Get It paradigm. Come and Get It was (as we know) martial forced movement in the moment of deadly conflict whereby nearby martial actors were inexorably drawn to the Fighter’s challenge, feint, etc. No Saving Throw…just move adjacent. That made people CRAZY. This ability, if mundane, does WAAAAAAAAY more than CaGI…again, without a Saving Throw. It utterly takes ALL agency (not just moving adjacent) from them, rendering them actor docile and placid. This isn’t just a singular moment where a subconscious permutation takes place (which is not just a thing…this is the predominate mode of operation in conflict/stress-charged martial tests…which is why I’ve always been utterly find with CaGI)…this is for an ENTIRE MINUTE. </p><p> </p><p>So to recap:</p><p> </p><p>* Martial/mundane effect</p><p> </p><p>* No Saving Throw allowed </p><p> </p><p>* All agency removed</p><p> </p><p>* For an entire minute.</p><p></p><p>Should I expect a Heavens and Earth moving outrage sometime shortly?</p><p></p><p>Just saw you responded, don't have time to read and respond now so I'll get to it tonight.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7067426, member: 6696971"] Would you be alright with it if it was allowed a Charisma Saving Throw? Also, thoughts on below? [MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION] , couple thoughts: 1) I don’t have my books available but I’m fairly certain that one or both of Fey Presence and Hypnotic Gaze aren’t called out as supernatural or magical effects in their descriptions. Does this mean these two are not/may not be magical? I think that would be pretty contentious. 2) I’m sure you know personally that I fully support the Frightened, Charmed (and plenty of other conditions including all sorts of Forced Movement) being achieved by mundane means. 5e has obviously supported this paradigm as well. 3) Finally, since we’re going there, I’m going to get into what I was intimating above. If this Paladin ability is mundane rather than magical, I fully expect there to be an utter outcry by the player base because of the Come and Get It paradigm. Come and Get It was (as we know) martial forced movement in the moment of deadly conflict whereby nearby martial actors were inexorably drawn to the Fighter’s challenge, feint, etc. No Saving Throw…just move adjacent. That made people CRAZY. This ability, if mundane, does WAAAAAAAAY more than CaGI…again, without a Saving Throw. It utterly takes ALL agency (not just moving adjacent) from them, rendering them actor docile and placid. This isn’t just a singular moment where a subconscious permutation takes place (which is not just a thing…this is the predominate mode of operation in conflict/stress-charged martial tests…which is why I’ve always been utterly find with CaGI)…this is for an ENTIRE MINUTE. So to recap: * Martial/mundane effect * No Saving Throw allowed * All agency removed * For an entire minute. Should I expect a Heavens and Earth moving outrage sometime shortly? Just saw you responded, don't have time to read and respond now so I'll get to it tonight. [/QUOTE]
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