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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9871981" data-attributes="member: 4937">The barbarian ends up with like 50% more hit points than any other class, but it really needs that 18 CON (presumably, you'd never bother to play one without it).  The troubles are numerous.   You are still 1st level with the thief is hitting 4th level, and you are 13th level when a fighter is hitting 18th level.  So your THACO isn't as good, nor are your attacks per round.  You lag even a non-specialized fighter.  Equally bad, you are required to forgo early picks for magical items when playing in a group, so you're weapons and armor won't be as good because the party was dividing up magic items you couldn't take.Really, the Barbarian is a thief with a ton of hit points and fighter THACO and weapons.  You're reasonably stealthy and broadly skillful, but you aren't overpowered.  An argument could be made they are underpowered.The big problem with them is they can't be in a party with a M-U or Cleric for the most part.  That's party dynamics you just don't need.  You see them show up mostly when a player is told like, "Make an 10th level character".  They are powerful for their level, but they are always going to lag behind equal XP characters.  This makes me think I should write up a fixed Barbarian.</blockquote>