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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 9877814" data-attributes="member: 4348">Okay, I was polite.  I'm still being polite in the face of several of you who are being quite insulting.If you weren't there, how in the world do you know what did or did not happen?I'm glad your "historians" but I've never met a historian that has been this disrespectful to primary sources.  Ever.That said...insults like this are probably not really inducive to happy days...Which, though insulting...as I will post below, may have some truth to it....That said...I realized that the conversation was a stupid argument.And you know what's worse...I gave an off ramp to this conversation  in the post just prior to this one...because this is stupid.  This is so...very very stupid.I didn't want to argue or fight to defend my past.  I didn't want to cause the argument which all of you have decided to jump on to hate/mock on the me and the other players from the OD&D time period I gamed with.  That was never my intention.  (Edit:  and I still don't understand why you felt the need to do that...and I'm sorry I got drawn in to it.  I was trying to explain at first...but I should have just left at that point instead of trying to explain it).And it wasn't my intent to really discuss that either.  I did not want this to evolve into delving about the early ways which we played the game.   It was never my intention.  I was trying to be helpful in making a suggestion on how to make the thief seem more "balanced" for those who didn't feel it was already balanced. My mistake was assuming that others would know how it used to be played (which...obviously was not only wrong to assume, but even more unexpected is that people who weren't even there are trying to dictate and state things about how a game they didn't even see or participate in was played, or trying to find something unrelated (racial ability of listening at doors as the same thing as Hear Noise...is not something that I have ever really played as...and yes...that was a statement in this thread someone made) to nitpick my memories and try to use that to claim that my experiences from the past must be bad/wrong.Which made me realize...this is stupid.  This is dumb.   This is a dumb argument.  This is a stupid argument.  You obviously aren't going to change my history and I don't know exactly what you are attempting to convince me of...so...why are we even doing this???I admitted it was stupid to be arguing about this stuff.  I don't want to argue about this stuff.  I thought I'd help foster conversation on the original topic before you guys all decided you didn't like what I recalled about the early game.I thought it would be useful in the actual topic of re balancing the thief as it was.  This is not the first time I've talked about the thief and some of the ideas that went before and with it as well as ways the game was played.  I did not think it would even be controversial.  I was trying to be helpful.  I had no idea someone would decide that they needed to tear me and my past down and nitpick on things in order to discredit the idea of  playing the thief in that way.Which brings me to the idea I stated above.But [USER=4937]@Celebrim[/USER] may have a point.  I DON'T fully understand  how these younger people play today...and that's what divides us.  Because now days it's a different type of player out there than it was back in the day.  What I thought would be a useful idea (just play it how we used to play it.  The thief automatically succeeds in their skill usage unless challenged or a challenging situation) is apparently very offensive (and I still don't understand why...but as was said...it may be that I just don't understand you guys as players).Something that may seem as a helpful suggestion from me, is instead seen as a very offensive idea (and once again I still don't understand why you feel the need to be so offended by the idea...but...I'll accept it and say...I just don't understand what you are after or want and I'm sorry about that).  You do you. I'm sorry to have offended you. It will not change how I play though.  I'll continue to use the thief and other characters as I have since the beginning in my TSR D&D games, but once again...I don't want to argue about this and am sorry I got drawn into this.</blockquote>

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