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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5289686" data-attributes="member: 78116">I put that party (albeit I do not know what you used precisely) against an Enigma of Vecna (pulled the level down from 6 to 4), a ghoul fleshseeker (MM3), 2 shadows (MM3) and a Dread Protector (MM3, protecting the Enigma of Vecna) and utterly mauled it with 3 dead and the last two barely alive. The remaining experience I had left over accounted for the concealment in the entire area of combat, so the various lurkers could use their stealth powers. I notice that you put 3 skirmishers with 2 controllers against that party. Without soldiers and brutes, I am not surprised you got the result you did. My monster composition is Controller/Lurker/Lurker/Lurker/Soldier - but a wider array of powers and abilities. The enigma getting stuck in with a particularly high damage claw attack being a key difference - not to mention the Enigma prevented certain characters from being able to use encounter/daily/utility powers at the right times. The dread protector was able to keep heat off the shadows, who assassinated the runepriest (considering I did just this in my actual IRL game this week, it was like watching an instant replay!) and then got the invoker shortly after with Mr. Engimas help. The ghoul kept the Barbarian entertained and it was only when the enigma and ghoul were killed that it looked like the party could pull it back. The runepriest was dead and the warden had numerous dirt naps though.In the end, I had the Barbarian with few HP left and the Warden (who was almost dead due to the Shadows). The Warden was dead for certain if he hadn't got a lucky crit to finish off the shadow! So yeah, if you take a poor composition of monsters an EL+2 encounter doesn't do much. I agree. Noting that I have three level 3 creatures in there, terrain that I've accounted for in the XP, a 2 level lower enigma of vecna (with damage reduced correspondingly) and a level 4 ghoul. With that composition, including their pretty solid stealth checks and some good rolls they easily mauled the party (leaving 3 dead). With a few rolls going against the PCs, that was a TPK just like the dragon.</blockquote>

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