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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5261354" data-attributes="member: 80487"><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm    :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" />I guess "3-5 minutes max." might be right if one were just rehashing familiar "builds", but in my experience people tend to take more time considering the character. There's a list of about 90 Talents, not counting Languages and Mundane Talents.(There's also shopping for equipment, which I have not found especially speedy, and which tends to take up most of the time spent on starting characters in old D&D, T&T, and other such games.) Advanced Melee is very comprehensive. Grappling is most definitely covered! It is one of the most detailed, and yet fast-playing, man-on-man combat games ever published.Advanced Wizard has about 70 spells just through IQ 13 (on par with the total number of magic-user spells in the original D&D set), and another 60 or so beyond that (not counting individual Words of Command or the like). It also includes a pretty systematic set of rules for making magic items.The micro-games Melee and Wizard are shorter on options (especially Wizard, which as a stand-alone game must repeat a fair bit of the Melee rules).ITL covers dungeon adventures in considerable detail, but also includes material on such subjects as getting and holding a job, joining a guild, going to trial, getting lost in the wilderness, and getting your money out of the bank when emigrating on short notice.The idea of it as less than a "full featured" RPG is strange to me. Not many people were into the heavier games such as C&S, and hardly anything mixed such a motley of subjects as Gygax's DMG. Back in the day (1980), it was about on par with RuneQuest.TFT was the first RPG I recall in which characters were "built" of components bought with points. I also don't recall one previously built around a combat board game (although SPI's Dragonquest came along shortly).The balance between Hero (cheap Talents, costly Spells) and Wizard (cheap Spells, costly Talents) is brilliant.</blockquote>

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