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<blockquote data-quote="ezo" data-source="post: 9536409" data-attributes="member: 7037866">Actually, it really isn't that big a deal if you care to track it.This is a clip from my 2nd Edition custom character sheet:[ATTACH=full]389527[/ATTACH]Surprised: no dexShield-less: well, um... no shieldRear: no dex, no shieldSo, if you want to track it just put the different ACs on the character sheet or even in the creature stat blocks.I mean, of course, for most people it isn't that big an issue and not worth the extra space. Also, neither 5E (nor the prior character sheet from 2E) accounts for target skill to parry, etc. which is also part of AC (but never passively factored in).The easiest way to say &quot;clean miss&quot; is if you miss by 10 or more. So, in your example with AC 20, any total of 10 or less would be a clean miss. It doesn't factor in the dodge element of DEX, but is an easy rule to work with.Agree! Which is why I said not to be an asshat about it.IME any DM who is antagonistic in such a way will not have a game for long unless the players can go with it and riff on each other as well, and on the DM when creature wiff.Sure, but sometimes it certainly comes across that way...Powergaming won't help it, though. It might make you miss a bit less often, but if the DM acts like that when you miss, you will still miss on occassion and they will still act like that.Frankly, I find the turn of the discussiion a bit ironic. PCs miss so rarely IME (65% average hit rate, often much higher...) that how often does this even come up??</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ezo, post: 9536409, member: 7037866"] Actually, it really isn't that big a deal if you care to track it. This is a clip from my 2nd Edition custom character sheet: [ATTACH type="full" width="238px"]389527[/ATTACH] Surprised: no dex Shield-less: well, um... no shield Rear: no dex, no shield So, if you want to track it just put the different ACs on the character sheet or even in the creature stat blocks. I mean, of course, for most people it isn't that big an issue and not worth the extra space. Also, neither 5E (nor the prior character sheet from 2E) accounts for target skill to parry, etc. which is also part of AC (but never passively factored in). The easiest way to say "clean miss" is if you miss by 10 or more. So, in your example with AC 20, any total of 10 or less would be a clean miss. It doesn't factor in the dodge element of DEX, but is an easy rule to work with. Agree! Which is why I said not to be an asshat about it. IME any DM who is antagonistic in such a way will not have a game for long unless the players can go with it and riff on each other as well, and on the DM when creature wiff. Sure, but sometimes it certainly comes across that way... Powergaming won't help it, though. It might make you miss a bit less often, but if the DM acts like that when you miss, you will still miss on occassion and they will still act like that. Frankly, I find the turn of the discussiion a bit ironic. PCs miss so rarely IME (65% average hit rate, often much higher...) that how often does this even come up?? [/QUOTE]

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