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Message: <blockquote data-quote="nameless" data-source="post: 585174" data-attributes="member: 1543">The main problem I see with this system is that it ends up making surprise much more volatile. In the situation you named with the orc and the rogue, the rogue clearly has surprise and would get a surprise round (assuming he heard the orc coming before it opened the door). By offering the orc a reflex save, it makes it possible that he is not surprised when by all accounts he should be.I'm sure you might put up the argument that "he just has quick enough reflexes to negate the surprise." This is represented by uncanny dodge, though. I think the general rule given in the PHB works in pretty much every situation:1) If one party is aware of the other, and the second is unaware then the aware party gets a surprise round.2) If neither party is aware, neither get a surprise round, and everyone is flat-footed until their initiative on the first round.3) If both parties are aware, there is no surprise and nobody is flat-footed.For the purposes of this, aware means that the members of the party have successfully made spot or listen checks, or possess some successful extraordinary means to detect their opponent (like blindsight)*.*An aware combatant can still be caught flat-footed by an invisible (or hidden) attacker, if he doesn't pinpoint his location. This is not surprise per se, but similar.</blockquote>