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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gaiden" data-source="post: 309307" data-attributes="member: 103">Spawned from an earlier post that has degraded to a bit of bickering I have a serious question with regards to reflex saves and grappling.  I recall a smackdown where a dragon snatches a medium sized creature in its mouth and then breath weapons the poor fool while doing bite damage effectively giving the now-roasted poor fool (assume red dragon) no reflex save.If I am incorrect about the no reflex save, ignore the rest of this post.  However, if I am not, I was wondering what the difference was between the medium size character in the dragon's mouth and a character pinned in a grapple.To me, it seems...well the two scenarious are obviously different.  However, in game terms, it seems that the rule mechanics would function perfectly equivelantly.This question was brought up earlier but never got an answer in the other post - none that I saw anyway.So if a Dragon initiates a grapple as a free action after biting and succeeds dealing bite damage again and then next round breaths shouldn't the character get a reflex save?Afterall, the dragon did not even technically pin the character but just succeeded in grappling him.At least, if the character does not get a save, then in the alternate medium vs. medium creature where A has grappled B and A is successful, B ought to lose his save and especially should lose it if B is pinned (so long as A maintains the grapple of course)This also brings up another point, what if A is grappling B and A succeeds but then wants to voluntarily let go of B as B is trying to escape.  Lets say they will both be hit by a fireball.  According to the rules, A can only let go on his turn, even if it was to be considered a free action.Wow...ok way too many questions with how grappling affects reflex saves. CALLING THE SAGE,CALLING THE SAGEWhat are the circumstances in which one would lose the ability to make a reflex save? - looking for explicated answers, not just whenever they can't move or in an area that is too restrictive.If you are grappling, what happens to your reflex save?If you are pinned, what happens to your reflex save?If you are grappled inside a creature's mouth, what happens to your reflex save?If you are swallowed (let's say by a purple worm) what happens to your reflex save?Also, let's say that , oh I don't know, a purple worm (again) has swallowed you and one of your friends lightning bolts the creature, but unwittingly manages to line up the lightning bolt right where you are on the inside of the creature, do you have to make a save?  Again, please no dismissing question as - oh solid barrier - of course not - because electricity is conducted through living flesh.Moreover, let's say the purple worm makes its save, and does not have evasion - would you still have to make a save?What if it had evasion?Going back to the Dragon, let's say the dragon's friend fireballs the creature's face while you are inside its mouth (it's a red dragon), do you get a save?etc.etc.etc.any answers?</blockquote>

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