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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gaiden" data-source="post: 310875" data-attributes="member: 103">IDHMBWM - does it say that the character gets no save under the snatch feat?I don't recall reading that.Let me ask, am I the only person who sees some ambiguity with the rules with regards to losing a reflex save.  If one of the conditions to lose the save is that the area you are in is too restrictive, then how is being in a Dragon's mouth different then being pinned?  In both cases you pretty much are not moving (again, assuming that the character pinning you is not moving).Moreover, while in a dragon's mouth, the character is considered grappled - right?  In the dragon example, the character is not even technically pinned.Are there any explicit rules that detail under what conditions you lose your save - agian (with EMPHASIS):  NOT THE AMBIGUOUS rules that say whenever you are unable to move.Let's put it this way,  the conditions where a character are unable to move that are obvious and no brainers, I am not asking about.So if a character has dex 0, or any condition under which s/he would effectively have dex 0 (paralyzed, helpless, etc.) obviously no reflex save.However, even the 2.5' tunnel I am calling into question.  That is slightly ambiguous.  Consider - do you get no save because in that tunnel you are considered unable to move (mimicing dex 0) or is it simply one of those explicit conditions that you lose your save apart from any other founding rule.  It seems to me that using the fireball logic that character in its effect can still save means that if the character can move at all s/he ought to still be able to save.While in the dragon's mouth, the character is certainly not dex 0.  Moreover, you only lose your dex bonus to characters/creatures not included in the grapple.  (Trust me, I know grappling rules).  (this is all while not pinned).  If the character can then technically move around (inside the dragon's mouth) why doesn't s/he get the save?</blockquote>

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