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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2759652" data-attributes="member: 2011">The entire concept of "aware versus unaware" is very strange and not well defined in the DMG.For example, say you have room A and room B connected by a closed door.The PCs are fighting in room A. The Orcs in room B hear this and prepare for battle.During the fight, one of the PCs opens the door, sees an Orc, and throws a dagger.There are two possibilities here:1) The Orcs are aware. In this case, they could have been considered in combat for several rounds now, readied missile weapons, and could pelt the PC who opened the door. This seems reasonable (at least to me).2) The Orcs are unaware. In this case, there are several problems.a) Since they are unaware, the PC who opened the door not only gets to attack first, but if he has a higher initiative then what they rolled, he got a full round of action on round x and another full round action on round x+1. This is more actions than you even get while suprised which is at most a standard action followed by a full round of action.Note: this assumes you hold off on their initiatives to solve problem c below.b) If the PCs had not been in combat, and this PC just opened the door normally, he may or may not have been able to act in a surprise round. Hence, he can do more actions in the "in combat case" than in the "not in combat case".c) The Orcs who roll a lousy initiative get to go before the Orcs who rolled a good initiative.Say PC went on 15. Orc 1 rolls a 18, Orc 2 rolls a 12. Orc 2 gets to go 12, Orc 1 doesn't get to go until 18 of the next round since the PC did not go at "start of round".Plus, there are other issues. Say you have a group of guards coming towards the battle because the alarm went off. If you consider them unaware, then they are flatfooted until their first action occurs. So, when they arrive, do they arrive on their first action? If so, there is no need (in this case) for the flatfooted rule. If not, then they waltz into the room and are immediately flatfooted.So, if the battle breaks into a new location, having the newcomers there flatfooted is reasonable. If the newcomers come to the battle, having them being flatfooted is not reasonable.</blockquote>

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