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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6734864" data-attributes="member: 4937">In my experience as a DM, 80% of players that play CN are playing it as 'Diet CE'.&nbsp; They want all the 'benefits' of being evil, without having to put it on their character sheet.&nbsp; I suspect what you really have going is 2-3 of them are CE (labeled CN) and 1-2 of the ones labeled CG are probably CN.&nbsp; And I wouldn't be too sure of the ones labeled 'Neutral' either.Real CN has something like, &quot;Harm no one, do as you please&quot; as a philosophy.&nbsp; A real marker here of whether you are dealing with real CN's is whether they are morally repulsed by betrayal, by failing to pay your debts (or even incurring debt), or by trespassing on someone else's deserved property and rights.&nbsp; If they are consistently when faced with a choice to enrich themselves at the expense of others, choosing to enrich themselves and they don't even attempt to rationalize it much, you have a clear CE.&nbsp;&nbsp; Also look out for indicators like, not only is the character unmerciful, but he delights in wrecking an unlimited vengeance on anyone that insults them - ei, insults are paid with punches, and punches with dagger thrusts, and sometimes insults with dagger thrust.In any event, your Paladin is scarcely less in conflict with a CN than they would be with a CE character.&nbsp;&nbsp; It's ok to bring that up in play, provided you are willing to take outs to prevent party dissolution and play off of the other players cues.&nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, that assumes everyone is going to be mature about it.&nbsp;&nbsp; Instead of making it a table issue, make it an issue in character.&nbsp;&nbsp; If the Barbarian is like, &quot;I'm all bloody again, bro.&nbsp; Heal me.&quot;, it's alright to go, &quot;Our Glorious Lady Showna is not running your personal blood bank.&nbsp; If I expend the power she has delegated to me, to heal you of your recklessly earned wounds, then I'm risking the death of someone else who has greater needs.&nbsp; My purpose in this life is not to validate your wrathfulness and disregard of personal safety.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; And if the Barbarian's player is any good, he'll respond with something like, &quot;Oh. How do you know that?&quot;&nbsp; And so forth.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6734864, member: 4937"] In my experience as a DM, 80% of players that play CN are playing it as 'Diet CE'. They want all the 'benefits' of being evil, without having to put it on their character sheet. I suspect what you really have going is 2-3 of them are CE (labeled CN) and 1-2 of the ones labeled CG are probably CN. And I wouldn't be too sure of the ones labeled 'Neutral' either. Real CN has something like, "Harm no one, do as you please" as a philosophy. A real marker here of whether you are dealing with real CN's is whether they are morally repulsed by betrayal, by failing to pay your debts (or even incurring debt), or by trespassing on someone else's deserved property and rights. If they are consistently when faced with a choice to enrich themselves at the expense of others, choosing to enrich themselves and they don't even attempt to rationalize it much, you have a clear CE. Also look out for indicators like, not only is the character unmerciful, but he delights in wrecking an unlimited vengeance on anyone that insults them - ei, insults are paid with punches, and punches with dagger thrusts, and sometimes insults with dagger thrust. In any event, your Paladin is scarcely less in conflict with a CN than they would be with a CE character. It's ok to bring that up in play, provided you are willing to take outs to prevent party dissolution and play off of the other players cues. Of course, that assumes everyone is going to be mature about it. Instead of making it a table issue, make it an issue in character. If the Barbarian is like, "I'm all bloody again, bro. Heal me.", it's alright to go, "Our Glorious Lady Showna is not running your personal blood bank. If I expend the power she has delegated to me, to heal you of your recklessly earned wounds, then I'm risking the death of someone else who has greater needs. My purpose in this life is not to validate your wrathfulness and disregard of personal safety." And if the Barbarian's player is any good, he'll respond with something like, "Oh. How do you know that?" And so forth. [/QUOTE]

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