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General Tabletop Discussion
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Regarding DMG, Starter Set and Essentials kit: Are they good for the starting DMs?
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<blockquote data-quote="Alby87" data-source="post: 8800801" data-attributes="member: 7031244"><p>Hi! I'm writing this thread because in this forum I'm noticing several thread speaking on the role of the DMG: For some people it's a good reference book but not a starter book. For others the Starters and Essential Kits should be the real "starting" DM guide, for other the PHB, except for the missing magic obejcts list, is as good as is.</p><p></p><p>I wish to collect more about your tought about this question: "Is the official printed material available for D&D enough for starting playing the game as it is devised?".</p><p></p><p>Let's, for this example, imagine people which never had contact to RPG or D&D before, no access to external world or third parties book, nor Internet, Youtube and the stuff. Only the three starter and essential boxes, the core book slipcase (PHB, MM, DMG) and the core expansion slipcase (XGE,TCOE and MMOM).</p><p>How they will play?</p><p></p><p>My idea is that, WotC materials alone, the LMOP and DOIP will teach you how to DM, (no access to Stormwreck, don't have it) because they teach you the base of the game. The main cycle, the skills checks, the saving throws, and so on. Hiding and Vision might be explained better in the boxes than in the PHB!</p><p>The combat I think has a problem: they rely on the theater of the mind, but a lot of usefull information on how to adjudicate spells range are not tell (there is that sweet table on the DMG that tells how much peple is affected by cones and so on).</p><p>I think that is a conseguence of the 4e "you must use a battlegrid" fiasco. The starters give little advice on how to run a Thatre of the Mind combat but at the same time don't tell anything on battlegrid. This might be confusing.</p><p></p><p>Another problem is the how mapping is handled: they say to use it to explain or to draw for them, but no advice of "player could draw map too". This could have been a good advice, something that the old OD&D/BD&D boxes stressed a lot.</p><p></p><p>The adventure part (the town, the NPCs) advices are good... better than I remembered. There is even a small part of Wilderness trecking (but not resource management).</p><p>What the boxes and the PHB are missing is a good character sheet rundown. It's not a super complicated sheet, but it would have been nice to have something to explaine to complete new gamers how to use it.</p><p></p><p>So... the boxes really helps new DM to run published adventures. The DMG gave this information for granted, so the Core book trilogy is not helping completely new people. PHB was designed for new gamers, but the game core books was not designed for new DMs. And, this is what I think is the source of the most of the discussion: it takes for granted a skill a lot of DM want to have but no official materials, 5e, is giving them: how to create adventures. There are really a lot of tables and inspiration ideas on the DMG, but nothing like a tutorial, boxes style, to tell how to create a good dungeon map, how to populate it, how to put traps and so on. Same for Wilderness: terrain, cities, roads... If you have this skills from other sources, then the DMG is a mine of information.</p><p></p><p>TCOE recognised a Session Zero guide was missing everywhere, so they made it. XGE recognised the missing wilderness random encounter tables (in the DMG were spoken of but not presented), and they made it in that book.</p><p></p><p>So... rearraging the DMG in OneD&D will sure be a goal, but what Wizards shoul publish should be an "Beginner's DM" box, with a lot of tutorials, like B1-B2-X1-CM1 modules: tells the DM how to create not stories, backgrounds, NPCs (that's the DMG area), but playing pieces like maps, traps, areas. To better explain what's missing, from me, is:</p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td></td><td>Totally new</td><td>Basic</td><td>Medium</td><td>Advanced</td></tr><tr><td>Players</td><td>LMOIP/Stormwreck</td><td>DOIP</td><td>PHB</td><td>PHB</td></tr><tr><td>DMs</td><td><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>LMOIP/Stormwreck</td></tr></table></td><td>DOIP</td><td>MISSING</td><td>DMG</td></tr></table><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, outside of WotC are there a zilion of those books (like Lazy DM's trilogy) and many blogs, I recognize that.</p><p>I hope you found this reading interesting, naturally those are only my 2 CPs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alby87, post: 8800801, member: 7031244"] Hi! I'm writing this thread because in this forum I'm noticing several thread speaking on the role of the DMG: For some people it's a good reference book but not a starter book. For others the Starters and Essential Kits should be the real "starting" DM guide, for other the PHB, except for the missing magic obejcts list, is as good as is. I wish to collect more about your tought about this question: "Is the official printed material available for D&D enough for starting playing the game as it is devised?". Let's, for this example, imagine people which never had contact to RPG or D&D before, no access to external world or third parties book, nor Internet, Youtube and the stuff. Only the three starter and essential boxes, the core book slipcase (PHB, MM, DMG) and the core expansion slipcase (XGE,TCOE and MMOM). How they will play? My idea is that, WotC materials alone, the LMOP and DOIP will teach you how to DM, (no access to Stormwreck, don't have it) because they teach you the base of the game. The main cycle, the skills checks, the saving throws, and so on. Hiding and Vision might be explained better in the boxes than in the PHB! The combat I think has a problem: they rely on the theater of the mind, but a lot of usefull information on how to adjudicate spells range are not tell (there is that sweet table on the DMG that tells how much peple is affected by cones and so on). I think that is a conseguence of the 4e "you must use a battlegrid" fiasco. The starters give little advice on how to run a Thatre of the Mind combat but at the same time don't tell anything on battlegrid. This might be confusing. Another problem is the how mapping is handled: they say to use it to explain or to draw for them, but no advice of "player could draw map too". This could have been a good advice, something that the old OD&D/BD&D boxes stressed a lot. The adventure part (the town, the NPCs) advices are good... better than I remembered. There is even a small part of Wilderness trecking (but not resource management). What the boxes and the PHB are missing is a good character sheet rundown. It's not a super complicated sheet, but it would have been nice to have something to explaine to complete new gamers how to use it. So... the boxes really helps new DM to run published adventures. The DMG gave this information for granted, so the Core book trilogy is not helping completely new people. PHB was designed for new gamers, but the game core books was not designed for new DMs. And, this is what I think is the source of the most of the discussion: it takes for granted a skill a lot of DM want to have but no official materials, 5e, is giving them: how to create adventures. There are really a lot of tables and inspiration ideas on the DMG, but nothing like a tutorial, boxes style, to tell how to create a good dungeon map, how to populate it, how to put traps and so on. Same for Wilderness: terrain, cities, roads... If you have this skills from other sources, then the DMG is a mine of information. TCOE recognised a Session Zero guide was missing everywhere, so they made it. XGE recognised the missing wilderness random encounter tables (in the DMG were spoken of but not presented), and they made it in that book. So... rearraging the DMG in OneD&D will sure be a goal, but what Wizards shoul publish should be an "Beginner's DM" box, with a lot of tutorials, like B1-B2-X1-CM1 modules: tells the DM how to create not stories, backgrounds, NPCs (that's the DMG area), but playing pieces like maps, traps, areas. To better explain what's missing, from me, is: [TABLE] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]Totally new[/TD] [TD]Basic[/TD] [TD]Medium[/TD] [TD]Advanced[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Players[/TD] [TD]LMOIP/Stormwreck[/TD] [TD]DOIP[/TD] [TD]PHB[/TD] [TD]PHB[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]DMs[/TD] [TD][TABLE] [TR] [TD]LMOIP/Stormwreck[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE][/TD] [TD]DOIP[/TD] [TD]MISSING[/TD] [TD]DMG[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Yes, outside of WotC are there a zilion of those books (like Lazy DM's trilogy) and many blogs, I recognize that. I hope you found this reading interesting, naturally those are only my 2 CPs. [/QUOTE]
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Regarding DMG, Starter Set and Essentials kit: Are they good for the starting DMs?
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