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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Regarding DMG, Starter Set and Essentials kit: Are they good for the starting DMs?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8802417" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Yes, you have misunderstood, because you did what in the UK we call "picking up [cigarette butts]" (that's not exactly the phrase we use but it involves a word that's a homophobic slur in US!), something I've <em>absolutely</em> been guilty of in the past, so I can't zing you too hard. I.e. you didn't look at what I was responding to, you just made assumptions about what I was saying. Again, I've done this, I know how it is.</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying "PANIC!!!!" in a general sense. I'm saying that new DMs are <em>right to be concerned </em>that D&D is asking for a huge amount of work from them, that the reaction of horror they feel when 2-3 (and really 3 in their case) books slam down in front of them is not a completely irrational or unwarranted one.</p><p></p><p>I concur with this figure. Certainly my 80% was, but I think you agree with the general gist, that a lot of "tired" or "old" arguments are that way because there is something to them, and essentially calling an argument "tired and old" (something you will note I tend to avoid) is essentially just calling it "boring" rather than actually arguing against it.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, back on the panic point, that was about a specific situation that can occur to individual new DMs.</p><p></p><p>Talking generally, right now, I think the designers of D&D should be doing the opposite of panicking, to be clear. With 2024 and 1D&D, there is a true<strong> golden opportunity</strong>. The designers are in a situation where they can do the following:</p><p></p><p>1) Look at how D&D is presented and what the rules are, and identify how it could be made more accessible.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately so far with 1D&D, what we've seen is 1 step 1 step back (not 2 at least!). For everything they've made more straightforward (two-weapon fighting, for example), they've made something else more complicated (loads of stuff only working on an Attack Action specifically).</p><p></p><p>I hope this improves. But for example, as much as the Rogue might be slightly easier to run, the Ranger is more complicated and it's like, why? I feel like this is a good opportunity they're missing.</p><p></p><p>2) Look at the DMG and assess what it should actually be doing.</p><p></p><p>Like y'know, acting as a GUIDE for a DUNGEON MASTER < waggles eyebrows frantically ></p><p></p><p>Instead of a random collection of vague resources that are presented very poorly, which is the current 5E DMG.</p><p></p><p>They could do something superb. They have the technology. They have the billion dollars, well, you know what I mean! They could also make it a lot easier to put encounters together, frankly. Nobody should be having to pay for D&D Beyond to access the Encounter Builder, for example. D&D is complex when it comes to encounters, but it could be made easier (esp. with tables and/or tech).</p><p></p><p>3) Look at the resources they have around learning to DM, and instead of trying to nickle and dime people, or trying to convince everyone to buy a starter set - because a lot of people just won't, especially in this day and age - do their very best to provide great, easily-accessible resources for new DMs.</p><p></p><p>I don't think we even disagree that these are good goals, right? Or do you?</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's an wholly inaccurate assumption.</p><p></p><p>D&D's heavy DM load is not something all RPGs have, and it's not something RPGs have to have. With many RPGs, it simply isn't there in the same way, because you just don't need that level of prep/work.</p><p></p><p>I can't really argue that further because it's just not true and it's clear you haven't run other RPGs because you're making that assumption. It's simply a mistaken assumption, based I assume on the incorrect thinking that all RPGs involve equal amounts of work/prep/etc.</p><p></p><p>I didn't suggest they were. Indeed, there's no inherent connection. I do actually agree that making one person evangelize can be helpful, but my suggestion is that D&D puts too much weight on them, and makes people reluctant to be in that role. D&D has notably always had a DM shortage, and the fact that it requires vastly more prep than most modern RPGs does not seem likely to be unrelated to this. Back in the day, when most RPGs made the DM do a ton of work, there was less of a difference. But over the years, most RPGs have gradually dialled down how much the DM needs to do - D&D did a little with 4E, interestingly, before 5E increased it again, though still to less than 3E levels - or have simply been designed so the DM doesn't need to do much prep (in some cases almost none at all - unimaginable as that might seem).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8802417, member: 18"] Yes, you have misunderstood, because you did what in the UK we call "picking up [cigarette butts]" (that's not exactly the phrase we use but it involves a word that's a homophobic slur in US!), something I've [I]absolutely[/I] been guilty of in the past, so I can't zing you too hard. I.e. you didn't look at what I was responding to, you just made assumptions about what I was saying. Again, I've done this, I know how it is. I'm not saying "PANIC!!!!" in a general sense. I'm saying that new DMs are [I]right to be concerned [/I]that D&D is asking for a huge amount of work from them, that the reaction of horror they feel when 2-3 (and really 3 in their case) books slam down in front of them is not a completely irrational or unwarranted one. I concur with this figure. Certainly my 80% was, but I think you agree with the general gist, that a lot of "tired" or "old" arguments are that way because there is something to them, and essentially calling an argument "tired and old" (something you will note I tend to avoid) is essentially just calling it "boring" rather than actually arguing against it. Anyway, back on the panic point, that was about a specific situation that can occur to individual new DMs. Talking generally, right now, I think the designers of D&D should be doing the opposite of panicking, to be clear. With 2024 and 1D&D, there is a true[B] golden opportunity[/B]. The designers are in a situation where they can do the following: 1) Look at how D&D is presented and what the rules are, and identify how it could be made more accessible. Unfortunately so far with 1D&D, what we've seen is 1 step 1 step back (not 2 at least!). For everything they've made more straightforward (two-weapon fighting, for example), they've made something else more complicated (loads of stuff only working on an Attack Action specifically). I hope this improves. But for example, as much as the Rogue might be slightly easier to run, the Ranger is more complicated and it's like, why? I feel like this is a good opportunity they're missing. 2) Look at the DMG and assess what it should actually be doing. Like y'know, acting as a GUIDE for a DUNGEON MASTER < waggles eyebrows frantically > Instead of a random collection of vague resources that are presented very poorly, which is the current 5E DMG. They could do something superb. They have the technology. They have the billion dollars, well, you know what I mean! They could also make it a lot easier to put encounters together, frankly. Nobody should be having to pay for D&D Beyond to access the Encounter Builder, for example. D&D is complex when it comes to encounters, but it could be made easier (esp. with tables and/or tech). 3) Look at the resources they have around learning to DM, and instead of trying to nickle and dime people, or trying to convince everyone to buy a starter set - because a lot of people just won't, especially in this day and age - do their very best to provide great, easily-accessible resources for new DMs. I don't think we even disagree that these are good goals, right? Or do you? That's an wholly inaccurate assumption. D&D's heavy DM load is not something all RPGs have, and it's not something RPGs have to have. With many RPGs, it simply isn't there in the same way, because you just don't need that level of prep/work. I can't really argue that further because it's just not true and it's clear you haven't run other RPGs because you're making that assumption. It's simply a mistaken assumption, based I assume on the incorrect thinking that all RPGs involve equal amounts of work/prep/etc. I didn't suggest they were. Indeed, there's no inherent connection. I do actually agree that making one person evangelize can be helpful, but my suggestion is that D&D puts too much weight on them, and makes people reluctant to be in that role. D&D has notably always had a DM shortage, and the fact that it requires vastly more prep than most modern RPGs does not seem likely to be unrelated to this. Back in the day, when most RPGs made the DM do a ton of work, there was less of a difference. But over the years, most RPGs have gradually dialled down how much the DM needs to do - D&D did a little with 4E, interestingly, before 5E increased it again, though still to less than 3E levels - or have simply been designed so the DM doesn't need to do much prep (in some cases almost none at all - unimaginable as that might seem). [/QUOTE]
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Regarding DMG, Starter Set and Essentials kit: Are they good for the starting DMs?
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