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Message: <blockquote data-quote="sniffles" data-source="post: 3414509" data-attributes="member: 30035">That would be the contention of most of the players. It's only the GM who's arguing that you still have to make Climb checks. His argument as I understand it is that spider climb doesn't equate to the "clinging" ability (from Champions) - i.e., it doesn't make you like Spider-Man. It just gives you a big bonus to your Climb skill so you can climb surfaces you ordinarily wouldn't be able to climb without a rope. The question came up because one of the characters in a particular campaign is a halfling druid/sorcerer. In Races of the Wild there are racial substitution levels to give certain classes a different flavor for the various races, and this player took the halfling druid substitution levels for his character. These substitutions allow a halfling druid to ride his animal companion. Halfling druids with substitution levels can also spontaneously swap certain prepared spells for other spells on a predetermined list - one of which is spider climb. The player has been using his druid ability to cast personal spells on both himself and his animal companion to cast spider climb on his mount and himself. He then rode his mount up a wall and onto a ceiling and cast spells from there. The GM in question argues that the halfling shouldn't be able to ride his companion up walls so easily, especially since he doesn't use a saddle at all, and that he also shouldn't be able to casually travel on the walls in spider climb mode. The GM feels this would give a character with spider climb too much of an advantage over other characters moving normally. He wants to rule that if you take damage while spider climbing you may fall and take falling damage as well. The spell description states that the subject must have its hands free to climb, and that it "need not make Climb checks to traverse a vertical or horizontal surface (even upside-down)". But does a vertical surface include a perfectly smooth, flat surface, which the Climb skill description says you cannot traverse, period? Real spiders have trouble even with vertical surfaces that aren't perfectly smooth, like bathtubs. But we're not sure how to interpret that when it applies to a creature serving as a mount. Does the mount have to have hands in order to utilize spider climb, or do four (or more) legs suffice? Does the rider have to make Handle Animal checks to get the mount to climb up a wall? How does the rider stay in the saddle? Does the spell give him the ability to stay put automatically, or does he have to put his hands on his mount at all times?  When riding your feet usually aren't touching your mount - should they be for spider climb to keep the rider on the mount? In other words, does the rider have to stand on his mount in order to cling to the mount while spider climbing?</blockquote>

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