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<blockquote data-quote="kenada" data-source="post: 8100146" data-attributes="member: 70468">I’d describe PF2 as simultaneously simple and complex. The core of PF2 is very simple. You don’t have to memorize a bunch of exceptions. Everything is a check. You have three actions and a reactions. That’s it. Does something trigger a reaction? Just look at the traits. However, all those traits (and conditions) create a pretty steep learning curve. It really helps to internalize those to make things go smoothly, but there’s a lot to learn. It also doesn’t help that the book tends not to do a good job of actually teaching the rules.Take the visibility rules. They spend three pages explaining them, and they can be summarized much more concisely (and clearly IMO) in three bullets:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">If you know a creature is there somewhere, it exists on a spectrum of awareness: observed, hidden, undetected. If you don’t, then it’s unnoticed.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">You use Hide and Seek to change you or your target’s place on the spectrum.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">The spectrum also corresponds to the best senses can perceive a target: precise ⇒ observed, imprecise ⇒ hidden, vague ⇒ undetected.</li>
</ul>We didn’t grok the visibility rules until I put together a flow chart. After I did that, I saw how simple they actually were (and then grumbled about how they could have been presented more clearly).Don’t forget Starfinder! <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😂" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f602.png" title="Face with tears of joy&nbsp; &nbsp; :joy:" data-shortname=":joy:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /> More seriously, I’d probably put Shadowrun and maybe Cyberpunk ahead of PF2. I’m not sure where they place on the latest sales ranking though.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kenada, post: 8100146, member: 70468"] I’d describe PF2 as simultaneously simple and complex. The core of PF2 is very simple. You don’t have to memorize a bunch of exceptions. Everything is a check. You have three actions and a reactions. That’s it. Does something trigger a reaction? Just look at the traits. [I]However[/I], all those traits (and conditions) create a pretty steep learning curve. It really helps to internalize those to make things go smoothly, but there’s a lot to learn. It also doesn’t help that the book tends not to do a good job of actually teaching the rules. Take the visibility rules. They spend three pages explaining them, and they can be summarized much more concisely (and clearly IMO) in three bullets: [LIST] [*]If you know a creature is there somewhere, it exists on a spectrum of awareness: observed, hidden, undetected. If you don’t, then it’s unnoticed. [*]You use Hide and Seek to change you or your target’s place on the spectrum. [*]The spectrum also corresponds to the best senses can perceive a target: precise ⇒ observed, imprecise ⇒ hidden, vague ⇒ undetected. [/LIST] We didn’t grok the visibility rules until I put together a flow chart. After I did that, I saw how simple they actually were (and then grumbled about how they could have been presented more clearly). Don’t forget Starfinder! 😂 More seriously, I’d probably put Shadowrun and maybe Cyberpunk ahead of PF2. I’m not sure where they place on the latest sales ranking though. [/QUOTE]

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