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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 8101245" data-attributes="member: 16586">I have also had this discussion with [USER=12731]@CapnZapp[/USER] a number of times. The features that drew back to wanting to run PF2 (after pretty much abandoning modern D&amp;D for OSR games as a GM) are things he considers outmoded. Things like Exploration mode, real Vancian casting, managing your recovery, and puzzle box monster design.We also have a fairly substantial technical disagreement. I do not believe Fifth Edition has mechanical hooks that are compelling enough to make a layered tactical game with compelling crunch. The mechanical fundamentals are well suited to its play experience, but layering things on top of it will not get you to where you want to go. I could be wrong about this. Someone might create a design that does just that, but generally is a lot of danger in just layering stuff on top without building out a modular structure first.It's also most likely a matter of us talking past each other. The last thing I want in a crunchier game is the layering of passive effects on top of each other particularly if it comes from a general pool or stacking class levels. When you layer systems on top of each other like that tuning becomes damn near impossible because power differences have multiplicative effects. It also tends to move the skill of play away from play to prep (spell prep or character creation).The way PF2 feats generally represent more active abilities or grant narrative permissions rather than scaling numbers up keeps things more focused on the choices you make in play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 8101245, member: 16586"] I have also had this discussion with [USER=12731]@CapnZapp[/USER] a number of times. The features that drew back to wanting to run PF2 (after pretty much abandoning modern D&D for OSR games as a GM) are things he considers outmoded. Things like Exploration mode, real Vancian casting, managing your recovery, and puzzle box monster design. We also have a fairly substantial technical disagreement. I do not believe Fifth Edition has mechanical hooks that are compelling enough to make a layered tactical game with compelling crunch. The mechanical fundamentals are well suited to its play experience, but layering things on top of it will not get you to where you want to go. I could be wrong about this. Someone might create a design that does just that, but generally is a lot of danger in just layering stuff on top without building out a modular structure first. It's also most likely a matter of us talking past each other. The last thing I want in a crunchier game is the layering of passive effects on top of each other particularly if it comes from a general pool or stacking class levels. When you layer systems on top of each other like that tuning becomes damn near impossible because power differences have multiplicative effects. It also tends to move the skill of play away from play to prep (spell prep or character creation). The way PF2 feats generally represent more active abilities or grant narrative permissions rather than scaling numbers up keeps things more focused on the choices you make in play. [/QUOTE]

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