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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8106859" data-attributes="member: 12731">Well, at the risk of becoming tiresome I feel I still need to quibble.You have the presentation layer.You have the actual motions players go through to &quot;execute&quot; the rulesYou have the end results (what comes out of the box, whether it's <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box" target="_blank">black</a> or not.)I'm arguing that step 2 is far too fussy, involves far too many decision points, calculations and die rolls.So I'm not merely trying to say that the words make it seem much more complex than it really is. I'm saying it really is much more complex than it needed to be.You can achieve roughly the same results with far less mechanics (which in turn means you can achieve them with far less words). No beginner box can explain Crafting or Medicine (to take two examples) in a streamlined way unless the actual CRB rules (step 2) are ignored/simplified.This aspect alone lowers my grade of any given rpg subsystem. Whether the rules are fun, give good results, and so on, doesn't even come into this equation.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8106859, member: 12731"] Well, at the risk of becoming tiresome I feel I still need to quibble. You have the presentation layer. You have the actual motions players go through to "execute" the rules You have the end results (what comes out of the box, whether it's [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box']black[/URL] or not.) I'm arguing that step 2 is far too fussy, involves far too many decision points, calculations and die rolls. So I'm not merely trying to say that the words make it seem much more complex than it really is. I'm saying it really [I]is[/I] much more complex than it needed to be. You can achieve roughly the same results with far less mechanics (which in turn means you can achieve them with far less words). No beginner box can explain Crafting or Medicine (to take two examples) in a streamlined way unless the actual CRB rules (step 2) are ignored/simplified. This aspect alone lowers my grade of any given rpg subsystem. Whether the rules are fun, give good results, and so on, doesn't even come into this equation. [/QUOTE]

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