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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8130297" data-attributes="member: 6801252">I'm talking about all of the weapon patch expertise feats, I used to give them at level 1 for free-- <a href="https://dnd4.fandom.com/wiki/Light_Blade_Expertise" target="_blank">Light Blade Expertise</a> should be a specific example, you needed them to fix the scaling on the math, you needed improved defenses for similar reason. You did also have something called combat advantage, which was worth +2, my swordmage got that from <a href="https://dnd4.fandom.com/wiki/Wintertouched" target="_blank">Wintertouched</a>, I recall it being pretty much essential to get somehow so you didn't have to rely on all the conditions that gave it to you. Then you had something like <a href="https://dnd4.fandom.com/wiki/Escalating_Assault" target="_blank">Escalating Assault</a>-- but notice that it only applies to  basic attacks made by the Aegis of Assault power, so now you're tracking that bonus separately for those attacks as the bonus stacks up over like three rounds. This sort of thing wasn't uncommon either, I mentioned my friends Unity Avenger with the spreadsheet? He was calculating +1 per tier (of which there were four total) per person standing next to the target of his censure of unity on damage, on top of all of his other damage bonuses, and whatever things his powers gave them, so if he used a power that struck twice, he had to double up on  the calculation, and then potentially change it if he or someone else moved the following turn, while adding that to whatever the power's other effects, his magic items, and other features all added to it. But all of this applies only if there are no other enemies standing next to the avenger, in a game where movement effects were bread and butter. Don't get me wrong, I still miss 4e sometimes, but man, it was complex and I'm pretty sure the people in this thread are glossing over it a bit-- Pathfinder 1e was no better, was generally considered worse about it.</blockquote>

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