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<blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8144428" data-attributes="member: 6801252">Yup, I think 2e actually threads the needle very well in having meaningful character building, while avoiding the extreme power variation that could be such a problem in other games. I'll add that I don't really buy into 'munchkinry' as an unrepentant bad, nor do I think games should view systems that encourage such play as tainted. We like building characters, discussing the effectiveness of different options, hoping for options that let us accomplish certain mechanical goals, and contrasting the costs and benefits of different builds at my table.Having a system that rewards that, while limiting its negative consequences the way PF2e has really enhanced our game quite a bit, I remember that in 5e we just had stupendously major variations in power-- its an easily broken system and the main defense it seems to have is the social pressure of being told you're playing wrong whenever someone decides you need to be taken down a peg, I have players who are still carrying baggage from their first 5e groups punishing them for being effective, even though that effectiveness was the bog-standard, obvious Paladin build path applied unintentionally to a game where the GM had no problem with the five minute workday.On the subject of 'choice paralysis' other people have covered it well, in terms of it not being as large a problem as it seems, but I'll also note that in some ways, that's more of a personal problem than a systemic one. Making choices quickly is a skill you can improve at, I'm reminded of Chidi Anagonye from the good place. Framing it as a skill for players to improve in, is in my opinion, the least amount of damage done to the fun of any player at the table, as a solution to the issue.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The-Magic-Sword, post: 8144428, member: 6801252"] Yup, I think 2e actually threads the needle very well in having meaningful character building, while avoiding the extreme power variation that could be such a problem in other games. I'll add that I don't really buy into 'munchkinry' as an unrepentant bad, nor do I think games should view systems that encourage such play as tainted. We like building characters, discussing the effectiveness of different options, hoping for options that let us accomplish certain mechanical goals, and contrasting the costs and benefits of different builds at my table. Having a system that rewards that, while limiting its negative consequences the way PF2e has really enhanced our game quite a bit, I remember that in 5e we just had stupendously major variations in power-- its an easily broken system and the main defense it seems to have is the social pressure of being told you're playing wrong whenever someone decides you need to be taken down a peg, I have players who are still carrying baggage from their first 5e groups punishing them for being effective, even though that effectiveness was the bog-standard, obvious Paladin build path applied unintentionally to a game where the GM had no problem with the five minute workday. On the subject of 'choice paralysis' other people have covered it well, in terms of it not being as large a problem as it seems, but I'll also note that in some ways, that's more of a personal problem than a systemic one. Making choices quickly is a skill you can improve at, I'm reminded of Chidi Anagonye from the good place. Framing it as a skill for players to improve in, is in my opinion, the least amount of damage done to the fun of any player at the table, as a solution to the issue. [/QUOTE]

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