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<blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8145430" data-attributes="member: 6801252">I also kind of want to note that a significant portion of the 2e playerbase (the subreddit has done polling) is specifically people who feel like 5e wasn't cutting it for their needs, and have plenty of experience in it to make that assessment, which really puts a wrench in the idea that 5e's success should be repressing other designs. As far as I can tell, while still very successful, 5e is going through a midlife crisis in it's community where the designers are really starting to strain the limits of the system they created, and the community of newbies, which has a few years of experience under their belt now, are starting to grapple with the idea that they want more from their rule-set. That's probably not a shock, even for Zapp (who of course, evangelizes for his own theoretical advanced 5e-esque heartbreaker system) so the primary point of disagreement is more like how close that system should be to 5e. Personally, I'm very happy with most of the things they complain about, and I literally spent the few years prior to 2e's release GMing and playing 5e, there was literally a moment where I was in anxiety over whether the 2e system would make me convert because I was so invested in 5e-- in summary, I didn't want to like 2e, it converted me by sheer force of it's design and appeal. It's also weird to me that my disagreement is being reframed as not understanding the points being made, I understand them, they've just done nothing to convince me that they're good points, and since I keep running into Zapp here, on the paizo forums, and I believe on reddit as well, and I read more or less all of it, they've had ample opportunity to do so.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The-Magic-Sword, post: 8145430, member: 6801252"] I also kind of want to note that a significant portion of the 2e playerbase (the subreddit has done polling) is specifically people who feel like 5e wasn't cutting it for their needs, and have plenty of experience in it to make that assessment, which really puts a wrench in the idea that 5e's success should be repressing other designs. As far as I can tell, while still very successful, 5e is going through a midlife crisis in it's community where the designers are really starting to strain the limits of the system they created, and the community of newbies, which has a few years of experience under their belt now, are starting to grapple with the idea that they want more from their rule-set. That's probably not a shock, even for Zapp (who of course, evangelizes for his own theoretical advanced 5e-esque heartbreaker system) so the primary point of disagreement is more like how close that system should be to 5e. Personally, I'm very happy with most of the things they complain about, and I literally spent the few years prior to 2e's release GMing and playing 5e, there was literally a moment where I was in anxiety over whether the 2e system would make me convert because I was so invested in 5e-- in summary, [I]I didn't want to like 2e, it converted me by sheer force of it's design and appeal. [/I] It's also weird to me that my disagreement is being reframed as not understanding the points being made, I understand them, they've just done nothing to convince me that they're good points, and since I keep running into Zapp here, on the paizo forums, and I believe on reddit as well, and I read more or less all of it, they've had ample opportunity to do so. [/QUOTE]

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