Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Regarding the complexity of Pathfinder 2
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="kenada" data-source="post: 8152533" data-attributes="member: 70468"><p>I’m of two minds about this. On the one hand, D&D-likes generally expect the GM to react and adapt to what the PCs are doing. Even if GMs aren’t running dynamic complexes or anything “fancy”, they probably shouldn’t be passively engaging with the adventure. I think there’s an expectation that you are just as much an active participant in the adventure (beyond setting up the encounters and running the bad guys) as the PCs. On the other, PF2 tries to have it both ways. It wants to say: this is how PF2 goes, but it’s always couched in qualifiers.</p><p></p><p>Look at the <a href="http://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2" target="_blank">first rule of PF2</a> and their discussion of <a href="http://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=492" target="_blank">published adventures</a>. They say you can change things, which I take to mean that “by the book” isn’t intended, but it’s couched in qualifiers (“if your group agrees”) or as a way to tie things to the players’ characters. However, I’ll concede that it can also be read to mean that doing so is optional, and that can be a trap depending on how the group actually plays (e.g., a newbie group that happens to pick up tactics quickly probably won’t notice issues versus one that gets killed repeatedly).</p><p></p><p>I’m also reminded of the exploration mode rules, which want to structure things but are really non-committal about it. It’s not like the exploration procedure in e.g., OSE, which is very specific about what you do when. It’s like they want to take the system in a certain direction, but they don’t want the system to say anything about how it should be run. Consequently, experiences are varying pretty widely based on the group. That’s definitely not good. Even if I think PF2 is better suited towards old-school style play, it’s sure as hell not going to get any traction in that community, and that’s not how Paizo designs their adventures.</p><p></p><p>Coming back to your statement, I more or less agree. It’s a problem that PF2 doesn’t seem to understand its audience and say what the game is about. It’s okay if it’s not for “by the book” groups, but that should be clear. No one would mistake a game like OSE as that kind of game, but one can mistake PF2 for various kinds of games. That’s a definite mistake, and the system suffers for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kenada, post: 8152533, member: 70468"] I’m of two minds about this. On the one hand, D&D-likes generally expect the GM to react and adapt to what the PCs are doing. Even if GMs aren’t running dynamic complexes or anything “fancy”, they probably shouldn’t be passively engaging with the adventure. I think there’s an expectation that you are just as much an active participant in the adventure (beyond setting up the encounters and running the bad guys) as the PCs. On the other, PF2 tries to have it both ways. It wants to say: this is how PF2 goes, but it’s always couched in qualifiers. Look at the [URL='http://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2']first rule of PF2[/URL] and their discussion of [URL='http://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=492']published adventures[/URL]. They say you can change things, which I take to mean that “by the book” isn’t intended, but it’s couched in qualifiers (“if your group agrees”) or as a way to tie things to the players’ characters. However, I’ll concede that it can also be read to mean that doing so is optional, and that can be a trap depending on how the group actually plays (e.g., a newbie group that happens to pick up tactics quickly probably won’t notice issues versus one that gets killed repeatedly). I’m also reminded of the exploration mode rules, which want to structure things but are really non-committal about it. It’s not like the exploration procedure in e.g., OSE, which is very specific about what you do when. It’s like they want to take the system in a certain direction, but they don’t want the system to say anything about how it should be run. Consequently, experiences are varying pretty widely based on the group. That’s definitely not good. Even if I think PF2 is better suited towards old-school style play, it’s sure as hell not going to get any traction in that community, and that’s not how Paizo designs their adventures. Coming back to your statement, I more or less agree. It’s a problem that PF2 doesn’t seem to understand its audience and say what the game is about. It’s okay if it’s not for “by the book” groups, but that should be clear. No one would mistake a game like OSE as that kind of game, but one can mistake PF2 for various kinds of games. That’s a definite mistake, and the system suffers for it. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Regarding the complexity of Pathfinder 2
Top