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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Regarding the complexity of Pathfinder 2
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<blockquote data-quote="kenada" data-source="post: 8154481" data-attributes="member: 70468"><p>There are two issues at play here. The first is that Paizo derives most of its AP revenue from people who don’t run them. They’ve said this in the past (around the time PF1 was at its peak IIRC), so making adventures more functional is a non-starter. I expect this is also why we’re seeing weirder and weirder themes (to keep things fresh for the readers). I think game sales at its peek did eventually outclass AP sales, but I assume Paizo isn’t willing to jeopardize that revenue stream while PF2 growth is very slow.</p><p></p><p>The other issue is the OSR passed right on by Pathfinder. We see some old-school type elements in PF2. It does acknowledge exploration as an actual thing, but the implementation is still in service of story-driven adventurers (there are no procedures for exploration as its own goal). PCs are presumed to be heroes that become super heroes, and the system’s progression is designed with that in mind (higher level characters/creatures destroy lower level ones without breaking a sweat). Fights need to be balanced because they serve a dramatic role. You don’t just fight something because you got in trouble, it’s part of the narrative progression.</p><p></p><p>Of course, you can ignore some of those things. I ignored balance when I converted Winter’s Daughter, and it went fight. Fighting there is really more of a failure state than a form of narrative progression. You can do open-ended exploration if you import a procedure from somewhere else. I did, and the system works fine for that (although I’ve started the conversation about switching to something else, I wouldn’t suggest taking that as an indictment of the system).</p><p></p><p>However, that’s beside the point, which is the official adventures. Paizo is stuck in 3e-era adventure design. The encounter-driven linear narrative format has served them well, and I don’t see any (internal or external) pressure on them to change what obviously works. The issues with balance can be tweaked. They’ll eventually find a sweet spot in the guidelines, or their audience will self-select or adapt to fit what Paizo offers. (They could just lean on adventure readers, but I think Paizo wants people to play their games regardless of how many people like to read but never run the adventures.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kenada, post: 8154481, member: 70468"] There are two issues at play here. The first is that Paizo derives most of its AP revenue from people who don’t run them. They’ve said this in the past (around the time PF1 was at its peak IIRC), so making adventures more functional is a non-starter. I expect this is also why we’re seeing weirder and weirder themes (to keep things fresh for the readers). I think game sales at its peek did eventually outclass AP sales, but I assume Paizo isn’t willing to jeopardize that revenue stream while PF2 growth is very slow. The other issue is the OSR passed right on by Pathfinder. We see some old-school type elements in PF2. It does acknowledge exploration as an actual thing, but the implementation is still in service of story-driven adventurers (there are no procedures for exploration as its own goal). PCs are presumed to be heroes that become super heroes, and the system’s progression is designed with that in mind (higher level characters/creatures destroy lower level ones without breaking a sweat). Fights need to be balanced because they serve a dramatic role. You don’t just fight something because you got in trouble, it’s part of the narrative progression. Of course, you can ignore some of those things. I ignored balance when I converted Winter’s Daughter, and it went fight. Fighting there is really more of a failure state than a form of narrative progression. You can do open-ended exploration if you import a procedure from somewhere else. I did, and the system works fine for that (although I’ve started the conversation about switching to something else, I wouldn’t suggest taking that as an indictment of the system). However, that’s beside the point, which is the official adventures. Paizo is stuck in 3e-era adventure design. The encounter-driven linear narrative format has served them well, and I don’t see any (internal or external) pressure on them to change what obviously works. The issues with balance can be tweaked. They’ll eventually find a sweet spot in the guidelines, or their audience will self-select or adapt to fit what Paizo offers. (They could just lean on adventure readers, but I think Paizo wants people to play their games regardless of how many people like to read but never run the adventures.) [/QUOTE]
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