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<blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 3701876" data-attributes="member: 1003">I came into the hobby just as AD&amp;D 2e was released, so AD&amp;D 2e and 3e are the only D&amp;D versions I really have experience with. I've read the older rules, but not played them.AD&amp;D 2e - speedy char chen; strong archetypes; fast combat; the dual &amp; multi-classing rules (being 2-3 levels behind everyone else always seemed fair, and a better deal than &quot;15th level Cleric abilities, or 1st level in Fighter, which costs the same thing&quot; - it works OK-ish for melee types, but screws casters); frequency, No. of, and ecology of monsters sections of in the MM (great baseline for world generation);Best part about AD&amp;D 2e; Hand Down:&nbsp; all those funky rules were a hurdle to learn, but once you did, they were fast to run, and that left more time for &quot;the fun stuff.&quot;&nbsp; I had the PHB and DMG memorized by the time I was out in 8th grade (I didn't even need the index - I knew page numbers, if I wanted to double-check to be sure), and could run my group through 3-4 sessions worth of &quot;3e game&quot; in an afternoon. Speed and easy-on-the-DM setup is critical.3e - d20 mechanic (very easy to adjudicate); saves based on what you resist things with (makes it much easier to adjudicate Saves vs. new things); the weapon chart (makes it easy to judge new weapons); Feats (good for personalization, but you have to keep the list short &amp; archetypey sweet - too many Feats causes buyer's remorse in players, slows down char gen, and is a huge burden on the DM's mental resources); +LA races (but this could be replicated with XP penalty races if you used AD&amp;D 2e mutli-classing, which would be better anyway, since most +LA assumes a melee class, and is just an albatross around any spellcasters' neck).Best Part about 3e; Hands Down:&nbsp; Unified, consistent rules for Combat, Saves and Weapon qualities.&nbsp; This makes it so much easier to both adjudicate &quot;stuff no one's tried before&quot; and to introduce new players to the game.&nbsp; When it makes sense, use a unified mechanic (but only when it make sense - don't shoehorn stuff that doesn't fit; and don't unify magic - then it's not magic).Both versions: spells (instead of a &quot;spell system&quot;); fun races; fun classes; Misc/Wondrous magical items; Other systems:Armor = DR or converts Lethal to Subdual (Iron Heroes, Grim Tales)Combat options to cause conditions (Frighten, Stun, Daze, etc.) instead of the static &quot;lethal or subdual HP dmg&quot;Iron Heroes' simplified Attacks-of-Opportunity (any standard action not a melee attack - what 3e should have been)Iron Heroes' stunts &amp; skill challenges (not every cool maneuver needs to be a Feat)Iron Heroes' non-reliance on external sources of plusses.&nbsp; You get to have all the funky magical items (like flying carpets and bottle of endless water) and can always grant unique weapons (like x2 damage vs. dragons), but you don't need &quot;generic +3 magic weapon&quot; or &quot;yet-another-cloak of resistance +4&quot; to be balanced vs. CR-appropriate monsters or spellcasters, and you're just as dangerous with a loin cloth and a rusty blade as a D&amp;D character of the same level, fully equipped. I love that.)C&amp;C's unified &quot;Do stuff that's not combat&quot; mechanic (they use Prime stats, but you could also &quot;group&quot; former Skills into &quot;athleticism&quot;, &quot;agility&quot;, &quot;sneak&quot;, &quot;perceive&quot;, &quot;traps, tools &amp; locks&quot;, &quot;influence&quot; etc. and have a unified class-derived advancement, just like BAB and Saves).&nbsp; I think Skill Points were a huge improvement over Non-Weapon Proficiencies, but a step in the wrong direction nonetheless.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Irda Ranger, post: 3701876, member: 1003"] I came into the hobby just as AD&D 2e was released, so AD&D 2e and 3e are the only D&D versions I really have experience with. I've read the older rules, but not played them. AD&D 2e - speedy char chen; strong archetypes; fast combat; the dual & multi-classing rules (being 2-3 levels behind everyone else always seemed fair, and a better deal than "15th level Cleric abilities, or 1st level in Fighter, which costs the same thing" - it works OK-ish for melee types, but screws casters); frequency, No. of, and ecology of monsters sections of in the MM (great baseline for world generation); [U]Best part about AD&D 2e; Hand Down[/U]: all those funky rules were a hurdle to learn, but once you did, they were fast to run, and that left more time for "the fun stuff." I had the PHB and DMG memorized by the time I was out in 8th grade (I didn't even need the index - I knew page numbers, if I wanted to double-check to be sure), and could run my group through 3-4 sessions worth of "3e game" in an afternoon. Speed and easy-on-the-DM setup is critical. 3e - d20 mechanic (very easy to adjudicate); saves based on what you resist things with (makes it much easier to adjudicate Saves vs. new things); the weapon chart (makes it easy to judge new weapons); Feats (good for personalization, but you [B]have[/B] to keep the list short & archetypey sweet - too many Feats causes buyer's remorse in players, slows down char gen, and is a huge burden on the DM's mental resources); +LA races (but this could be replicated with XP penalty races if you used AD&D 2e mutli-classing, which would be better anyway, since most +LA assumes a melee class, and is just an albatross around any spellcasters' neck). [U]Best Part about 3e; Hands Down[/U]: Unified, consistent rules for Combat, Saves and Weapon qualities. This makes it so much easier to both adjudicate "stuff no one's tried before" and to introduce new players to the game. When it makes sense, use a unified mechanic (but only when it make sense - don't shoehorn stuff that doesn't fit; and don't unify magic - then it's not magic). Both versions: spells (instead of a "spell system"); fun races; fun classes; Misc/Wondrous magical items; Other systems: Armor = DR or converts Lethal to Subdual (Iron Heroes, Grim Tales) Combat options to cause conditions (Frighten, Stun, Daze, etc.) instead of the static "lethal or subdual HP dmg" Iron Heroes' simplified Attacks-of-Opportunity (any standard action not a melee attack - what 3e should have been) Iron Heroes' stunts & skill challenges (not every cool maneuver needs to be a Feat) Iron Heroes' non-reliance on external sources of plusses. You get to have all the funky magical items (like flying carpets and bottle of endless water) and can always grant unique weapons (like x2 damage vs. dragons), but you don't need "generic +3 magic weapon" or "yet-another-cloak of resistance +4" to be balanced vs. CR-appropriate monsters or spellcasters, and you're just as dangerous with a loin cloth and a rusty blade as a D&D character of the same level, fully equipped. I love that.) C&C's unified "Do stuff that's not combat" mechanic (they use Prime stats, but you could also "group" former Skills into "athleticism", "agility", "sneak", "perceive", "traps, tools & locks", "influence" etc. and have a unified class-derived advancement, just like BAB and Saves). I think Skill Points were a huge improvement over Non-Weapon Proficiencies, but a step in the wrong direction nonetheless. [/QUOTE]

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