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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Reification versus ludification in 5E/6E
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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9589653" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>Sure but it was arbitrary to begin with, is all I'm saying. </p><p></p><p>A goblin dealing d6+2 damage with a short sword because they have a Dex of 14 and short swords deal d6 damage is no less arbitrary than just saying "goblins deal d6+2 damage".</p><p></p><p>After all, the decision to make short swords deal d6 piercing damage, the decision to let someone deal Dex damage with them, and the decision to give the goblin a Dex of 14 were all equally arbitrary.</p><p></p><p>What's missing is transparency- an answer for "why is this the way that it is" if you care about such things. And there isn't one. Magic missiles deal d4+1 damage because that's what was decided decades ago, back when enemies had a lot less hit points than they do now. Once upon a time, all weapons did d6 damage.</p><p></p><p>We rarely get any real explanation as to why things change. Why do Wizards have d6 hit dice instead of d4? The people making the game felt like doing it. The same reason why Fireball does 8d6 at 5th level instead of 5d6.</p><p></p><p>Now we do sometimes get some sense of why things don't change- generally because the fans of the game would be displeased. There is an essential "D&D-ness" to the game which is based on nostalgia. Any time you tip the boat, some will grumble about it. Make magic missiles not always hit or introduce "damage on a miss" into the game for things that aren't explicitly magical, and that might make someone say "it doesn't feel like D&D anymore".</p><p></p><p>I realize I'm veering off into a whole separate discussion here, but it's really all the same. People want to be able to perceive what's going on and why it is happening. Years ago on these boards, I had an interesting argument with someone about a 4e monster that they put up as their example of why they hated 4e monsters.</p><p></p><p>The creature was a zombie that dealt damage to you at the start of your turn for being near it. Despite the fact that there were any number of reasons why this was happening, their point of contention was that the game element didn't explain which of these reasons it was.</p><p></p><p>Does the zombie have an aura of entropy? Does it claw and bite so ferociously that just being near it exposes you to harm? They didn't know, and it didn't make sense to them without an explanation.</p><p></p><p>However, if I cast a spell and say "a 20-foot-radius sphere of blackness and bitter cold appears, centered on a point within range and lasting for the duration. This void is filled with a cacophony of soft whispers and slurping noises that can be heard up to 30 feet away. No light, magical or otherwise, can illuminate the area, and creatures fully within the area are blinded.</p><p></p><p>The void creates a warp in the fabric of space, and the area is difficult terrain. Any creature that starts its turn in the area takes 2d6 cold damage. Any creature that ends its turn in the area must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 acid damage as milky, otherworldly tentacles rub against it.", how important is it to also explain that this is the result of I "open a gateway to the dark between the stars, a region infested with unknown horrors"?</p><p></p><p>Some would say it's extremely important. Others will shrug and say "eh, it's magic, it does weird stuff all the time."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9589653, member: 6877472"] Sure but it was arbitrary to begin with, is all I'm saying. A goblin dealing d6+2 damage with a short sword because they have a Dex of 14 and short swords deal d6 damage is no less arbitrary than just saying "goblins deal d6+2 damage". After all, the decision to make short swords deal d6 piercing damage, the decision to let someone deal Dex damage with them, and the decision to give the goblin a Dex of 14 were all equally arbitrary. What's missing is transparency- an answer for "why is this the way that it is" if you care about such things. And there isn't one. Magic missiles deal d4+1 damage because that's what was decided decades ago, back when enemies had a lot less hit points than they do now. Once upon a time, all weapons did d6 damage. We rarely get any real explanation as to why things change. Why do Wizards have d6 hit dice instead of d4? The people making the game felt like doing it. The same reason why Fireball does 8d6 at 5th level instead of 5d6. Now we do sometimes get some sense of why things don't change- generally because the fans of the game would be displeased. There is an essential "D&D-ness" to the game which is based on nostalgia. Any time you tip the boat, some will grumble about it. Make magic missiles not always hit or introduce "damage on a miss" into the game for things that aren't explicitly magical, and that might make someone say "it doesn't feel like D&D anymore". I realize I'm veering off into a whole separate discussion here, but it's really all the same. People want to be able to perceive what's going on and why it is happening. Years ago on these boards, I had an interesting argument with someone about a 4e monster that they put up as their example of why they hated 4e monsters. The creature was a zombie that dealt damage to you at the start of your turn for being near it. Despite the fact that there were any number of reasons why this was happening, their point of contention was that the game element didn't explain which of these reasons it was. Does the zombie have an aura of entropy? Does it claw and bite so ferociously that just being near it exposes you to harm? They didn't know, and it didn't make sense to them without an explanation. However, if I cast a spell and say "a 20-foot-radius sphere of blackness and bitter cold appears, centered on a point within range and lasting for the duration. This void is filled with a cacophony of soft whispers and slurping noises that can be heard up to 30 feet away. No light, magical or otherwise, can illuminate the area, and creatures fully within the area are blinded. The void creates a warp in the fabric of space, and the area is difficult terrain. Any creature that starts its turn in the area takes 2d6 cold damage. Any creature that ends its turn in the area must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 acid damage as milky, otherworldly tentacles rub against it.", how important is it to also explain that this is the result of I "open a gateway to the dark between the stars, a region infested with unknown horrors"? Some would say it's extremely important. Others will shrug and say "eh, it's magic, it does weird stuff all the time." [/QUOTE]
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