Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Reification versus ludification in 5E/6E
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9592927" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>For the most part, yes. If you'll allow me to expand the point, the issues come when the lore =/= the mechanics. It creates a mental disconnect. And to be sure, often the lore has not lined up with the mechanics, throughout D&D's history. They've certainly <strong>tried</strong> to do so, or at least tried to make justifications for the shift (see Time of Troubles, Spellplague, etc.), but you're always going to be left with things that just make no sense from a lore, in-universe standpoint.</p><p></p><p>Now you can build a game where it's rules and lore are closely associated with one another. Earthdawn is one of my favorites for this, where if you told an NPC that someone is a Fourth Circle Warrior, they'd very likely understand what you're talking about (unlike in D&D, where if I told someone that a guy was a Fourth Level Fighter, I'd get funny looks).</p><p></p><p>But because D&D has evolved in such a way that it is meant to be usable with different settings and lore, you run into problems. AD&D tried to make such adjustments, with things like Oriental Adventures and Dragonlance Adventures with special rules and custom character options, and we still see a little of that to this day (like with the MtG setting books), but modern D&D has become a more generic system, where it's intended to plug and play into many possible settings, but there will be cases where it's a square peg being driven into a round hole.</p><p></p><p>Dark Sun was written with 2e Psionics in mind- it feels very different without those rules. Eberron was written with 3e rules in mind- and again, it feels very different in other editions as a result.</p><p></p><p>For example, 2e Tieflings were part human and part "something else" (where the "something else" was assumed to be Lower Planar in origin) and thus could have wildly different appearances, and, eventually, abilities. By 4e, Tieflings had a default appearance, later retconned as due to meddling by Asmodeus.</p><p></p><p>Today, Tieflings are organized into major "bloodlines".</p><p></p><p>Halflings used to be Hobbits with the serial numbers filed off. 3e made them slighter and longer limbed, 4e introduced lore making them nomads who travel in caravans or along rivers. 5e went backwards a bit, but also introduced the "top heavy" Halflings.</p><p></p><p>Someone who wishes to bring their Halfling Fighter/Thief from 1e Forgotten Realms to another edition may start to wonder who the heck these pretender Halflings are, wearing shoes and such, not to mention having their abilities drastically altered! "What do you mean I lose my infravision! I have Stout blood, you know!".</p><p></p><p>Generally, we're supposed to not dwell on such things- treating them as if they always were the way they are now, unless otherwise specified. Having devoured a lot of Faerun lore in my AD&D years, it's often surprising what's been changed and what's been forgotten.</p><p></p><p>I remember playing a 4e FR adventure in Encounters that took place in the same geographical location as the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance video game, yet nothing about it was the same. When I asked the adventure's author on the forums, he was completely surprised- as far as he'd known, it was basically an undeveloped space he could easily drop his adventure into!</p><p></p><p>We might like lore to line up with the game mechanics, but not only has that ship sailed, D&D has become a veritable Ship of Theseus. It still has the same general shape, but very few of the original parts.</p><p></p><p>Yet, at least from one subjective point of view, it's still Dungeons & Dragons.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9592927, member: 6877472"] For the most part, yes. If you'll allow me to expand the point, the issues come when the lore =/= the mechanics. It creates a mental disconnect. And to be sure, often the lore has not lined up with the mechanics, throughout D&D's history. They've certainly [B]tried[/B] to do so, or at least tried to make justifications for the shift (see Time of Troubles, Spellplague, etc.), but you're always going to be left with things that just make no sense from a lore, in-universe standpoint. Now you can build a game where it's rules and lore are closely associated with one another. Earthdawn is one of my favorites for this, where if you told an NPC that someone is a Fourth Circle Warrior, they'd very likely understand what you're talking about (unlike in D&D, where if I told someone that a guy was a Fourth Level Fighter, I'd get funny looks). But because D&D has evolved in such a way that it is meant to be usable with different settings and lore, you run into problems. AD&D tried to make such adjustments, with things like Oriental Adventures and Dragonlance Adventures with special rules and custom character options, and we still see a little of that to this day (like with the MtG setting books), but modern D&D has become a more generic system, where it's intended to plug and play into many possible settings, but there will be cases where it's a square peg being driven into a round hole. Dark Sun was written with 2e Psionics in mind- it feels very different without those rules. Eberron was written with 3e rules in mind- and again, it feels very different in other editions as a result. For example, 2e Tieflings were part human and part "something else" (where the "something else" was assumed to be Lower Planar in origin) and thus could have wildly different appearances, and, eventually, abilities. By 4e, Tieflings had a default appearance, later retconned as due to meddling by Asmodeus. Today, Tieflings are organized into major "bloodlines". Halflings used to be Hobbits with the serial numbers filed off. 3e made them slighter and longer limbed, 4e introduced lore making them nomads who travel in caravans or along rivers. 5e went backwards a bit, but also introduced the "top heavy" Halflings. Someone who wishes to bring their Halfling Fighter/Thief from 1e Forgotten Realms to another edition may start to wonder who the heck these pretender Halflings are, wearing shoes and such, not to mention having their abilities drastically altered! "What do you mean I lose my infravision! I have Stout blood, you know!". Generally, we're supposed to not dwell on such things- treating them as if they always were the way they are now, unless otherwise specified. Having devoured a lot of Faerun lore in my AD&D years, it's often surprising what's been changed and what's been forgotten. I remember playing a 4e FR adventure in Encounters that took place in the same geographical location as the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance video game, yet nothing about it was the same. When I asked the adventure's author on the forums, he was completely surprised- as far as he'd known, it was basically an undeveloped space he could easily drop his adventure into! We might like lore to line up with the game mechanics, but not only has that ship sailed, D&D has become a veritable Ship of Theseus. It still has the same general shape, but very few of the original parts. Yet, at least from one subjective point of view, it's still Dungeons & Dragons. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Reification versus ludification in 5E/6E
Top