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Reimagining 5e's skill system using AD&D inspiration
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 8599018" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Thanks for pointing it out. I think I'm ready to try experimenting with some different systems and Shadow of the Demon Lord looks interesting. Sounds like that approach has a lot in common with the DMG's skill variant: background proficiency, just providing flavorful lists of professions. I did look over Robert J Schwalb's blog and I like the implied flavor of the chosen professions, though it's maybe a bit <em>too loose </em>for our tastes.</p><p></p><p>Thought a bit more, and I've pinned down the things I'm wanting from 5e's skill system that I haven't been getting in my games...</p><p></p><p>Something more flavorful & character-defining... where the selection of skills tells more of a story about the character (and lets the player embody that character more) than the current 5e skill system does, and perhaps evokes the imagination more about the world. For example, "I have proficiency in water vehicles" is milk toast compared to "I know the Riverways of this land" or "Seamanship is in my blood." I think fusing Sage Knowledge into many skills (i.e. making more explicit what you know, regardless of calling for an Intelligence (Survival) check or an Intelligence (Medicine) check) might be one of the guiding principles to accomplish this.</p><p></p><p>A bit more guidance and clarity when it comes to skills & tools (I don't see any reason not to merge these). There's sort of this false unified approach in 5e where it <em>seems </em>like all skills are resolved in the same way, but then you have these little oddities like jump distance being a formula based on Strength and no substantive guidance for how Athletics checks influence jumping. Another example is that you have two ways defined by the rules to figure out what a magic item does – casting <em>identify </em>or experimenting with it during a rest, nothing about making a check, yet XGtE has weird sections like for Cobbler's Tools "Arcana, History. Your knowledge of shoes aids you in identifying the magical properties of enchanted boots or the history of such items." It's like... yeah... I get that they want me to track another subsystem for gaining advantage on a check for having a certain tool proficiency (honestly, I'd rather not - too much like 3e's fiddly synergy rules for skills)... but... what does that <em>mean </em>in context to the actual rules not asking for a check to discern a magic item's properties? While AD&D was way more guilty of weird little sub-systems to trip you up, at least many of the skills had some clarity about their scope and how to use them.</p><p></p><p>I'm also looking for skills that map to how, at least with my DM style and players I run for, skills seem to be used. A good example is that, whether I'm making a History check in 5e or Spout Lore in DungeonWorld, it boils down to me as DM telling the player what their PC knows, then the player deciding how their PC explains that – with a <em>really</em> engaged player that play loop can be fun, but usually my experience as DM is that it falls kind of flat. I need to be really on top of my game to quickly deliver poignant punchy lore, otherwise player attention quickly lapses, and then there's the awkward "uh, ok, I tell the rest of my party that." I suspect this is because there's a fundamental difference in play experience between Active skills, Lore skills, and Craft skills (with their downtime & tables sub-systems), and so forth, at least with the groups I run for. I'm still figuring out how many types of approaches to running skills there are.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 8599018, member: 20323"] Thanks for pointing it out. I think I'm ready to try experimenting with some different systems and Shadow of the Demon Lord looks interesting. Sounds like that approach has a lot in common with the DMG's skill variant: background proficiency, just providing flavorful lists of professions. I did look over Robert J Schwalb's blog and I like the implied flavor of the chosen professions, though it's maybe a bit [I]too loose [/I]for our tastes. Thought a bit more, and I've pinned down the things I'm wanting from 5e's skill system that I haven't been getting in my games... Something more flavorful & character-defining... where the selection of skills tells more of a story about the character (and lets the player embody that character more) than the current 5e skill system does, and perhaps evokes the imagination more about the world. For example, "I have proficiency in water vehicles" is milk toast compared to "I know the Riverways of this land" or "Seamanship is in my blood." I think fusing Sage Knowledge into many skills (i.e. making more explicit what you know, regardless of calling for an Intelligence (Survival) check or an Intelligence (Medicine) check) might be one of the guiding principles to accomplish this. A bit more guidance and clarity when it comes to skills & tools (I don't see any reason not to merge these). There's sort of this false unified approach in 5e where it [I]seems [/I]like all skills are resolved in the same way, but then you have these little oddities like jump distance being a formula based on Strength and no substantive guidance for how Athletics checks influence jumping. Another example is that you have two ways defined by the rules to figure out what a magic item does – casting [I]identify [/I]or experimenting with it during a rest, nothing about making a check, yet XGtE has weird sections like for Cobbler's Tools "Arcana, History. Your knowledge of shoes aids you in identifying the magical properties of enchanted boots or the history of such items." It's like... yeah... I get that they want me to track another subsystem for gaining advantage on a check for having a certain tool proficiency (honestly, I'd rather not - too much like 3e's fiddly synergy rules for skills)... but... what does that [I]mean [/I]in context to the actual rules not asking for a check to discern a magic item's properties? While AD&D was way more guilty of weird little sub-systems to trip you up, at least many of the skills had some clarity about their scope and how to use them. I'm also looking for skills that map to how, at least with my DM style and players I run for, skills seem to be used. A good example is that, whether I'm making a History check in 5e or Spout Lore in DungeonWorld, it boils down to me as DM telling the player what their PC knows, then the player deciding how their PC explains that – with a [I]really[/I] engaged player that play loop can be fun, but usually my experience as DM is that it falls kind of flat. I need to be really on top of my game to quickly deliver poignant punchy lore, otherwise player attention quickly lapses, and then there's the awkward "uh, ok, I tell the rest of my party that." I suspect this is because there's a fundamental difference in play experience between Active skills, Lore skills, and Craft skills (with their downtime & tables sub-systems), and so forth, at least with the groups I run for. I'm still figuring out how many types of approaches to running skills there are. [/QUOTE]
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