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<blockquote data-quote="Gizzard" data-source="post: 1520613" data-attributes="member: 527">Tangent: I banned this spell back in 3E for a couple reasons; as I look at the 3.5E version it seems better, but not exactly fixed.&nbsp; Here are some things that lead to the banning; feel free to ignore this tiny rant if you aren't asking as DM.&nbsp; ;-)/tiny rant1) In 3E, sometimes you could come back as a bear, sometimes as a dryad.&nbsp; If you were a low level fighter and came back as a bear, you were like 3 times as powerful as the rest of the party.&nbsp; If you came back as a dryad, you were +LA but couldn't move far from your tree.&nbsp; How is the DM supposed to deal with this?&nbsp; Now, in 3.5 you can come back as a Bugbear (win!) or as a Kobold (lose).&nbsp; The balance issues are smaller but not eliminated.&nbsp; 2) Raise Dead should be a better spell.&nbsp; It's 5th level, it costs 5000g.&nbsp; Reincarnate is 4th and costs 1000g.&nbsp; How do you balance these spells so that PCs want to use Raise Dead instead of rolling the dice and hoping to become +LA with Reincarnate?&nbsp; (And then being sad if they get screwed by being a Kobold?)&nbsp; This is mostly an issue with low level parties where the difference between 5000g and 1000g is really significant.&nbsp; But, then of course, low level is where the +LA creatures would have the most impact.&nbsp; /end rant Anyway, this all ties back into your question about which order to apply the effects of level loss etc -- I think in order to balance the spell with Raise Dead you have to interpret the langauge in a harsh way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gizzard, post: 1520613, member: 527"] Tangent: I banned this spell back in 3E for a couple reasons; as I look at the 3.5E version it seems better, but not exactly fixed. Here are some things that lead to the banning; feel free to ignore this tiny rant if you aren't asking as DM. ;-) /tiny rant 1) In 3E, sometimes you could come back as a bear, sometimes as a dryad. If you were a low level fighter and came back as a bear, you were like 3 times as powerful as the rest of the party. If you came back as a dryad, you were +LA but couldn't move far from your tree. How is the DM supposed to deal with this? Now, in 3.5 you can come back as a Bugbear (win!) or as a Kobold (lose). The balance issues are smaller but not eliminated. 2) Raise Dead should be a better spell. It's 5th level, it costs 5000g. Reincarnate is 4th and costs 1000g. How do you balance these spells so that PCs want to use Raise Dead instead of rolling the dice and hoping to become +LA with Reincarnate? (And then being sad if they get screwed by being a Kobold?) This is mostly an issue with low level parties where the difference between 5000g and 1000g is really significant. But, then of course, low level is where the +LA creatures would have the most impact. /end rant Anyway, this all ties back into your question about which order to apply the effects of level loss etc -- I think in order to balance the spell with Raise Dead you have to interpret the langauge in a harsh way. [/QUOTE]

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