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<blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 4163251" data-attributes="member: 2205">The organization and the seige equipment was all Sauron (or Saruman) though; not the orcs themselves.&nbsp; Left to their own devices, they fell into squabbling fiefdoms run by minor warlords.The implication being that they weren't anything on their own, and were in fact rather inferior soldiers even; pretty much everyone had a chance to beating back an orc infestation with relatively light losses.&nbsp; Without some greater, organizing intelligence, the orcs didn't amount to a hill of beans.&nbsp; The only orcs of any real notoriety on their own behalf were Bolg and Azog.&nbsp; Maybe Golfimbul could pass muster here too.&nbsp; But again; they were rather handily defeated as soon as they stuck their necks out of the Misty Mountains, and in Golfimbul's case it was in an especially undignified manner.No, my ascendent hobgoblin empires don't really resemble Tolkien IMO.&nbsp; Only superficially.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Desdichado, post: 4163251, member: 2205"] The organization and the seige equipment was all Sauron (or Saruman) though; not the orcs themselves. Left to their own devices, they fell into squabbling fiefdoms run by minor warlords. The implication being that they weren't anything on their own, and were in fact rather inferior soldiers even; pretty much everyone had a chance to beating back an orc infestation with relatively light losses. Without some greater, organizing intelligence, the orcs didn't amount to a hill of beans. The only orcs of any real notoriety on their own behalf were Bolg and Azog. Maybe Golfimbul could pass muster here too. But again; they were rather handily defeated as soon as they stuck their necks out of the Misty Mountains, and in Golfimbul's case it was in an especially undignified manner. No, my ascendent hobgoblin empires don't really resemble Tolkien IMO. Only superficially. [/QUOTE]

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