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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8056080" data-attributes="member: 18">I think this is how most people do it, but some APs are sufficiently bad that they either lose player buy-in, or makes more sense, with the party created (which was designed to fit the AP!) to not go the way that the AP really thinks that they will.Some groups will never see those, because the DM will just weed them out. But others will, especially with less experienced DMs.I'm trying to think of the specific module, but a while back, in 3E I think, we had some AP which was written with a 100% belief that the PCs would engage with some specific thing, but if you created PCs for the initial premise it had, it made little-to-no sense that they'd do that - the premise didn't match well with the actual thrust of the campaign. Strahd for 5E even has this issue a bit, due to it's "gotcha" design. Sure a DM can say "I'm running Ravenloft!" and ensure a bit more appropriate characters, but that's going against the design to some extent (my own Strahd PC had a short backstory which was pretty cool but 900% irrelevant as a result of being Ravenlofted). And this sort of thing just isn't uncommon. For some d20 game as well we had a campaign which really strongly encouraged you to create sort of roguish troublemaker PCs in the bit you gave to the players, but actually didn't work unless you were all extremely well-behaved.If you find modules more work, not less, they're literally failing to do their job, but I do sympathize, because with a bad enough mod, I find the same thing. Good ones though lighten a DM's workload massively (or ones that are bad but the DM just doesn't fix). You're still not engaging with what I see as the central issue here though - sometimes it's not the DM or the players who are at fault - sometimes it's just a crap module. That's the problem I'm pointing out here. You seem to want to blame players and make out that they're disrespectful or whatever, or that the DM has a hard life, both of which can be true, but in my experience these problems very often come down a badly-written module often accompanied by an inexperienced but not otherwise-bad DM. You can't really "talk to someone" about being inexperienced (especially if you are as well). They know it, you know it. The problem is the module.</blockquote>

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