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Rejecting the Premise in a Module
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8058624" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>I use maps for combat almost 100% of the time; but I don't need much time and certainly not a printer to make them: I draw them on the fly as required, on the gridded chalkboard that is our gaming table.</p><p></p><p>I don't count that as prep time in any case. That said, there's already enough minis here (painted or not) that if you can't find one that suits you're likely being far too fussy. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Time as in maybe a minute or two for a complex map, plus another minute if I have to dig out the right minis for the foes (rather than just use generic pawns, which I do about half the time).</p><p></p><p>I replaced your list formatting with numbers so I could more easily reference each point.</p><p></p><p>Some of these are quite valid and I'd guess we all have to do them: 1 and 12 in particular, and lesser versions of 2 and 5.</p><p></p><p>But I for one almost never do most of the rest. </p><p></p><p>3 - If I'm running a hard-line AP this should never be a problem. If the players get stumped they get stumped. If they find an unforeseen solution then good for them. If they want to go off on side quests then I'm not running (or they're not playing) a hard-line AP any more, as a hard AP somewhat requires both the players and DM staying firmly on the rails in order to work (which is in part why I largely eschew them).</p><p>4 - I expect the module to provide me the required DM-side maps. I don't expect battlemaps nor do I prepare them ahead of time if for no other reason than I can't guarantee that the bit I map would be the place where the combat actually occurs. Battle maps are what the chalkboard is for.</p><p>6 - no matter what I'm running I'm going to run it neutrally, and quite intentionally not tailor it to specific players and-or characters. It's up to the players to factor in their characters' interactions with the module elements once they're introduced, not me.</p><p>7 - I admire this but most of the time I just make something up on the fly. Rarely, I'll rehearse something; but whenever I do it doesn't come off in play nearly as well as when I rehearse it, largely because in play I'm too busy trying to "remember my lines" instead of just improvising them like I should.</p><p>8 - see 6. If they do something off-script that has negative (or positive!) consequences, so be it.</p><p>9 - see 6. I expect the module to tell me what treasure they're going to find, and that's what they'll find. If the module doesn't give me specifics then I-as-DM have a right to be annoyed, as specifics are what I'm paying for.</p><p>10 - I do not (and if I have my way, will never) run online unless it's completely TotM; in part because of the amount of prep time it demands.</p><p>11 - again admirable, but IMO not necessary. If I have music going it's just background music; and while pictures are nice it's extremely rare that a picture exactly conveys the scene you're describing unless a) the picture is specifically of that scene e.g. it's included in the module, or b) the picture came first and you've built the scene around it (homebrew only; this can't happen in a hard AP as you're not building the scenes there, the module is).</p><p></p><p>My overarching question is this, however: given all the prep you're doing wouldn't it take you less time (and save you some money) to just design and write your own APs? And by 'write' I don't mean in nearly the same level of detail as the published modules; just maps (which you're doing anyway) and enough scratch notes on each encounter to get you by.</p><p></p><p>Thing is, forcing the players down a railroad is what running these APs is all about. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Otherwise you'd not be running them: you'd be running sandbox or stand-alone adventures or hex-crawl or some other version of play where the players have far more choice in what their PCs do next than is given by a typical AP.</p><p></p><p>The very few times I've ever tried using anything like this I found it bogged things down to a complete halt as I kept having to take down and rebuild the pieces every time the party moved - which can happen an awful lot if-when they're in explore mode.</p><p></p><p>Never again. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>As a third opinion, I don't think they're crap and laughable, in and of what they are and what they are for. I see them as geared toward providing a certain experience for a more or less specific type of table and playstyle, and in this I can only assume they're meeting considerable success given that WotC keeps releasing more of them. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>As written, however, the published APs don't suit what I do or the games I run; though I can mine them for individual adventures to drop in somewhere else (Princes of the Apocalypse is great for this!)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8058624, member: 29398"] I use maps for combat almost 100% of the time; but I don't need much time and certainly not a printer to make them: I draw them on the fly as required, on the gridded chalkboard that is our gaming table. I don't count that as prep time in any case. That said, there's already enough minis here (painted or not) that if you can't find one that suits you're likely being far too fussy. :) Time as in maybe a minute or two for a complex map, plus another minute if I have to dig out the right minis for the foes (rather than just use generic pawns, which I do about half the time). I replaced your list formatting with numbers so I could more easily reference each point. Some of these are quite valid and I'd guess we all have to do them: 1 and 12 in particular, and lesser versions of 2 and 5. But I for one almost never do most of the rest. 3 - If I'm running a hard-line AP this should never be a problem. If the players get stumped they get stumped. If they find an unforeseen solution then good for them. If they want to go off on side quests then I'm not running (or they're not playing) a hard-line AP any more, as a hard AP somewhat requires both the players and DM staying firmly on the rails in order to work (which is in part why I largely eschew them). 4 - I expect the module to provide me the required DM-side maps. I don't expect battlemaps nor do I prepare them ahead of time if for no other reason than I can't guarantee that the bit I map would be the place where the combat actually occurs. Battle maps are what the chalkboard is for. 6 - no matter what I'm running I'm going to run it neutrally, and quite intentionally not tailor it to specific players and-or characters. It's up to the players to factor in their characters' interactions with the module elements once they're introduced, not me. 7 - I admire this but most of the time I just make something up on the fly. Rarely, I'll rehearse something; but whenever I do it doesn't come off in play nearly as well as when I rehearse it, largely because in play I'm too busy trying to "remember my lines" instead of just improvising them like I should. 8 - see 6. If they do something off-script that has negative (or positive!) consequences, so be it. 9 - see 6. I expect the module to tell me what treasure they're going to find, and that's what they'll find. If the module doesn't give me specifics then I-as-DM have a right to be annoyed, as specifics are what I'm paying for. 10 - I do not (and if I have my way, will never) run online unless it's completely TotM; in part because of the amount of prep time it demands. 11 - again admirable, but IMO not necessary. If I have music going it's just background music; and while pictures are nice it's extremely rare that a picture exactly conveys the scene you're describing unless a) the picture is specifically of that scene e.g. it's included in the module, or b) the picture came first and you've built the scene around it (homebrew only; this can't happen in a hard AP as you're not building the scenes there, the module is). My overarching question is this, however: given all the prep you're doing wouldn't it take you less time (and save you some money) to just design and write your own APs? And by 'write' I don't mean in nearly the same level of detail as the published modules; just maps (which you're doing anyway) and enough scratch notes on each encounter to get you by. Thing is, forcing the players down a railroad is what running these APs is all about. :) Otherwise you'd not be running them: you'd be running sandbox or stand-alone adventures or hex-crawl or some other version of play where the players have far more choice in what their PCs do next than is given by a typical AP. The very few times I've ever tried using anything like this I found it bogged things down to a complete halt as I kept having to take down and rebuild the pieces every time the party moved - which can happen an awful lot if-when they're in explore mode. Never again. :) As a third opinion, I don't think they're crap and laughable, in and of what they are and what they are for. I see them as geared toward providing a certain experience for a more or less specific type of table and playstyle, and in this I can only assume they're meeting considerable success given that WotC keeps releasing more of them. :) As written, however, the published APs don't suit what I do or the games I run; though I can mine them for individual adventures to drop in somewhere else (Princes of the Apocalypse is great for this!) [/QUOTE]
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