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<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 531282" data-attributes="member: 3051">No, we're doing it the same way.&nbsp; All I was trying to explain was the rationale behind the numbers.Take the CHA=10 example.&nbsp; 500/10 = 50%, so 125% and 75% are your numbers, right?&nbsp; &nbsp; This gives you the quick-n-dirty numbers you want as a DM.But most shopkeepers won't come right out and say &quot;this item is worth 100gp, so I'll give you 75 for it&quot;.&nbsp; It's more likely that they offer 50, you demand 100, they offer 60, you demand 90, and so on until you meet at the middle ground (75).&nbsp; This may take several cycles to reach, where each of you gives a little ground.&nbsp; Those numbers I gave tell you the END point of this haggling, but the START points will be much wider.If you assume CHA=10 is average, then the amount you give at each step should be the same as the amount THEY give, which puts the final price at the midpoint.&nbsp; But, if you have a low CHA (the 7.5 case), they'll be less likely to budge in price.&nbsp; For every 10 you drop your &quot;demand&quot; price, they might only raise their &quot;offer&quot; price by 5.&nbsp; End result, you meet at a different final price (66.7), even though your starting demand (100) and his starting offer (50) were the same as for the high-CHA people.Likewise, if you have a high CHA (the 15 case), for every 5 you change your price, he might change by 10.&nbsp; Again, this results at a different final price (83.3), even though the starting points were the same.That's what the 500/CHA was for.&nbsp; It's not like each item has a magical price tag on it that adjusts to the CHA of the person looking at it; although, that'd be really cool.&nbsp; If the item's worth 100, the merchant lists it for 150, but you can &quot;talk him down&quot; to a lower price based on your CHA (125 for CHA=10) through polite haggling (and maybe a Diplomacy check).&nbsp; Any merchant who has no interest in haggling should just assume CHA 10 and list it for 125.You can try to use Bluff to improve the odds, but that goes well beyond polite haggling and into the realm of hostile manipulation; you're not just trying to improve the price, you're actually trying to convince him his appraisal was wrong.&nbsp; Charm spells are right out.Now, if the player wants to roleplay the haggling out, you can use these numbers as a guideline, but let them get a better price for their efforts.&nbsp; Maybe let them do an opposed CHA check to improve the odds.Someone with CHA=5 wouldn't be able to convince him to lower his price at all, so I cap it at the 150%/50% starting point.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 531282, member: 3051"] No, we're doing it the same way. All I was trying to explain was the rationale behind the numbers. Take the CHA=10 example. 500/10 = 50%, so 125% and 75% are your numbers, right? This gives you the quick-n-dirty numbers you want as a DM. But most shopkeepers won't come right out and say "this item is worth 100gp, so I'll give you 75 for it". It's more likely that they offer 50, you demand 100, they offer 60, you demand 90, and so on until you meet at the middle ground (75). This may take several cycles to reach, where each of you gives a little ground. Those numbers I gave tell you the END point of this haggling, but the START points will be much wider. If you assume CHA=10 is average, then the amount you give at each step should be the same as the amount THEY give, which puts the final price at the midpoint. But, if you have a low CHA (the 7.5 case), they'll be less likely to budge in price. For every 10 you drop your "demand" price, they might only raise their "offer" price by 5. End result, you meet at a different final price (66.7), even though your starting demand (100) and his starting offer (50) were the same as for the high-CHA people. Likewise, if you have a high CHA (the 15 case), for every 5 you change your price, he might change by 10. Again, this results at a different final price (83.3), even though the starting points were the same. That's what the 500/CHA was for. It's not like each item has a magical price tag on it that adjusts to the CHA of the person looking at it; although, that'd be really cool. If the item's worth 100, the merchant lists it for 150, but you can "talk him down" to a lower price based on your CHA (125 for CHA=10) through polite haggling (and maybe a Diplomacy check). Any merchant who has no interest in haggling should just assume CHA 10 and list it for 125. You can try to use Bluff to improve the odds, but that goes well beyond polite haggling and into the realm of hostile manipulation; you're not just trying to improve the price, you're actually trying to convince him his appraisal was wrong. Charm spells are right out. Now, if the player wants to roleplay the haggling out, you can use these numbers as a guideline, but let them get a better price for their efforts. Maybe let them do an opposed CHA check to improve the odds. Someone with CHA=5 wouldn't be able to convince him to lower his price at all, so I cap it at the 150%/50% starting point. [/QUOTE]

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