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<blockquote data-quote="Sammael" data-source="post: 5795256" data-attributes="member: 4475">Let's say we return to the old method of challenge calculation: party level vs monster level.For an orc to be a threat to a 1st level party of 4 characters, said orc needs to be a level 4 creature. That sounds about right (and fairly scary, particularly if a lone party member comes across a lone orc). I'd personally still design the orc as a level 0 creature, and add 4 levels of fighter to him, but whatever.A 5th level party (party level 20) would still find a small orc band (5 orcs) challenging. For a 10th level party, a level 8 orc chieftain, level 8 orc shaman and 6 orcs are a threat.At 15th level, we need 15 orcs, or 11 orcs with a chieftain and a shaman.Even at level 20, enough orcs may pose a challenge (not individually, but if they attack en masse).Is this what we really want, though? Do we want the power curve to be this flat?Personally, I want the orcs to remain relevant until level 10 or so. After that, orcs should become little more than nuisances. If I still want a dangerous encounter with orcs at level 15, I will need to add class levels and templates to those orcs, essentially turning the orcs into another party of characters.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sammael, post: 5795256, member: 4475"] Let's say we return to the old method of challenge calculation: party level vs monster level. For an orc to be a threat to a 1st level party of 4 characters, said orc needs to be a level 4 creature. That sounds about right (and fairly scary, particularly if a lone party member comes across a lone orc). I'd personally still design the orc as a level 0 creature, and add 4 levels of fighter to him, but whatever. A 5th level party (party level 20) would still find a small orc band (5 orcs) challenging. For a 10th level party, a level 8 orc chieftain, level 8 orc shaman and 6 orcs are a threat. At 15th level, we need 15 orcs, or 11 orcs with a chieftain and a shaman. Even at level 20, enough orcs may pose a challenge (not individually, but if they attack en masse). Is this what we really want, though? Do we want the power curve to be this flat? Personally, I want the orcs to remain relevant until level 10 or so. After that, orcs should become little more than nuisances. If I still want a dangerous encounter with orcs at level 15, I will need to add class levels and templates to those orcs, essentially turning the orcs into another party of characters. [/QUOTE]

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