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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 5797821" data-attributes="member: 53980">Actually, I was reading just the other day about a 1e module where the players couldn't go in the front entrance, because it was a low-level module and you'd encounter a few hundred guards walking in the front door. Regardless of that, not every adventure occurs in a dungeon. Are you suggesting that it's impossible for the PCs to encounter a orcish warparty of a few hundred orcs outside?Also that "1e" encounter would go much differently in 2e. I was addressing both editions. Even in the 1e scenario, you said yourself that it would be a different story if the goblins used overbearing, or if they were orcs. Seems like you built yourself a bit of a corner-case. (I mentioned Monty Haul simply because a party dripping in magic loot would most likely have very little to fear from low HD creatures.)My experiences must have been very different from yours, because in the good old 2e days, we encountered plenty of low HD creatures well above 4th level. If they were in small groups either it was a trick or they were admittedly laughable, but in larger groups or when partnered with a more powerful creature, they were far from negligible. Admittedly, I think that minions are a more elegant means of handling such weaker creatures, but not everyone feels about minions the way I do, so it's good to have alternatives.Lastly, 100 goblins (or orcs) was just a minimum. As I said, 100 goblins (or orcs) are only worth 1500 xp. That's half the price of one Spriggan Gnome (not exactly the biggest challenge for a high level party either)! Heck, it would take 400 orcs just to equal a Hatchling Blue Dragon (with regard to xp value). So you could easily toss several hundred such critters against the party at once, without breaking the xp bank. Give them all ranged weapons, and use smart tactics (such as overbearing), and I don't think the party will be laughing for long.My point is that in all previous editions, low level creatures could still be a threat to a high level party. 3e was the odd man out in that it accomplished it by allowing you to add class levels to these creatures, but in 1e and 2e a few hundred single HD humanoids could be quite the threat to a reasonably powered adventuring party, assuming the DM didn't just use them like Zapp Braniggan.</blockquote>

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