Relfex saves and size

[kreynolds]

Except with dragons.

Again, it only exists because of the grid, and it is limited to Dragons, or other creatures where the descriptions specifically state so. Combat in 3rd edition is handled on a grid. Its built on that. If you flank a Huge creature, you must define its position on the grid in order to illustrate the flank because flanking gets more complicated with larger creatures. This is the only time that a creature is "facing" in a particular direction, but it has no bearing on anything else, unless stated otherwise.

The tail attack of a dragon has no bearing on the rules as a whole. For example, when you make an attack and roll a 5, you get a 5 to add to everything else. However, when some deities make an attack and roll a 5, they get a 20 anyway. They always get a 20, so really, the only thing they are rolling for is to determine whether or not they threaten a critical hit (or auto hit and threat on a roll of 20). Does this mean that the special ability of deities applies to the whole set of rules? Of course not. Its exclusive to them.

And, to be precise, facing has little to do with how much a figure moves. Regardless if it's th' front or back, one part of that 10' by 20' creature just moved a heck of a lot more than 5'.

Facing has everything to do with it. Now, what you might do is grab the Vehicle movement rules from Dragon Magazine, or maybe even alter the flight maneuverability rules, thus adapting them to land movement. However, this would be a house rule. Facing simply does not exist 3rd edition. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Berk]

I'd have to agree with kreynolds on the fact that facing doesn't exist in 3e. It is assumed that all creatures can turn and what not during combat.

But in Mahali's defense I don't really think he was talking about facing in the same context of the word that kreynolds is.

 

[kreynolds]

But in Mahali's defense I don't really think he was talking about facing in the same context of the word that kreynolds is.

I agree that the context is different, but the end result is exactly the same. The back half of a creature moving farther than the front half can only exist if "facing" exists.

 

[Nail]

I agree that the context is different, but the end result is exactly the same. The back half of a creature moving farther than the front half can only exist if "facing" exists.

Sure.

We're talking at cross-purposes. You're right that the "back" half of the creature doesn't move; there's no facing in 3e, so there's no "back" to move.

However, some part of that 20' by 10' block (sitting on a grid) moves quite a bit farther than 5 feet, if you rotate the block. Whether that part is the "front" or the "back" or the "side" or ...well, it's just completely irrelevant to the point Mahali's making.

.....even so, (and even if Krey missed th' point :^) this has gone far off-topic. IMO, size should not penalize the creature's reflex save, for all of the reasons listed in the above messages.