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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mort" data-source="post: 7298151" data-attributes="member: 762">OK, but I don't see anything on the following paragraphs that supports such a definitive statement. What you seem to be getting at is the cards don't change, the player skill changes. That's of course true, but incomplete. In the type of card game you're referencing, chance (the cards), is only one element of the game play. The trick, is mastering the other elements so as to minimize the chance element. In gaming, too many adventures (and people writing adventures, professionally or at home) just simply ramp up the numbers (thereby keeping the chance element constant) based on level of play, without sufficiently changing the other elements of the challenge. They change the locations, the names, maybe even the monsters but not enough to change the skill level needed to succeed. It is essentially the same game of cards played over with the cards in near identical order AND an opponent who does not change in skill or strategy. Note, I'm in no way saying your adventures play out like that in any way. I'm saying published adventure paths seem to encourage this type of play. And the DC treadmill  is part of that problem. Is that a general "you" or me personally? I've played from low to high level in most versions of D&D, including 4e. I generally DM now, but hope my player skills haven't atrophied to the point of having less than a 50% shot.  All true, but my whole point is simply ramping up DCs is far from enough to qualify for this. You need to change other elements of the game play to challenge the players. I don't think you disagree here, I actually think the point is a bit too basic for the level of discussion your addressing.  That right there is the point. If the only difference between 1st, 10th and 30th level is the number of hoplites and if even circumstance needed to overcome them remains the same (roll 11 on a d20 for example) then the challenges are too similar and there's precious little point in even going up in level. For the level change to be meaningful, the scope and even nature of the challenge needs to change.  There must be other elements to challenge players as they progress. Sent from my SM-G930V using <a href="http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=93205" target="_blank">EN World mobile app</a></blockquote>

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