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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kerleth" data-source="post: 6055225" data-attributes="member: 84383">Actually, I don't think that there is nearly as solid of an argument for intelligence as charisma. Looking at fantasy fiction (dragonlance, which is intimately tied with DnD, as an example) there aren't nearly as many sage type clerics as their are wise or charismatic ones. Ironically, however, I would see less issues with all clerics being smart (knowledge skills, disable device assuming there isn't some sort of trained only rule) than wise (spot, listen, survival, so all clerics are wilderness experts). The more I think about it, the more I think wisdom may actually be the worst of the 3 "soul scores" for a cleric. (Though I know many will want to use wisdom because it is what they are comfortable with and have nostalgia for, and that is 100% okay). Let's boil down what a cleric is. Someone who has magical powers gained through service to a deity (or possibly a cause in some settings). These powers may be granted as gifts from the diety, or powered by the faith of the user. In fiction it is often the case that when a cleric has a crisis of faith their powers suffer. Self-confidence, determination, the ability to remain true to yourself and your ideals (such as religious beliefs) all match up pretty closely with Next's definition of charisma. It could even be argued that clerics have good charisma because anyone wielding the power of their deity is going to be granted an intimidating/inspiring presence and great force of will. Also, cleric's iconically serve as sheperd's to a flock of worshippers, or as the person in a party that, while perhaps not a leader, keeps everyone from giving up and/or killing each other. As far as evil or, perhaps I should say, clerics with "extreme personallity flaws", the fanatic is very common. Charisma, especially with next using it some in saving throws against fear and controlling effects, seems the best fit for this. Now, I don't want to pidgeonhole anyone into a certain role. When I DM I would be perfectly okay with a character using a score of their choice as long as it made sense for the character and the setting. I'm simply stating that if we are going to choose a default score, then that score should be the one that most closely represents the iconic fiction. What I want to minimize are incongruous elements, like almost all clerics (including city slickers, militant fanatics, and bookish sages) being skilled in surviving in the wild, spotting an ambush, and eavesdropping through a doorway. That said, I know cleric is going to be wisdom, and I just hope that when 5E comes out and I true to get a new regular group together (I just play sporadically now), I can find people who's playstyle (some small tweaking is okay if it's for a good reason and thought through) matches mine.</blockquote>

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