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Remind me again why this is a bad idea.
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<blockquote data-quote="Petrosian" data-source="post: 215278" data-attributes="member: 1149"><p>My points are...</p><p></p><p>first, not every character concept is buildable by ONE core class. The reason 3e has the loose multiclassing rules is to allow you to build the character "mechanics" to fit the concept. In the character you described, i would definitely see him as a fight-er-rogue and probably about evenly split. that gives him the skills he would seem to acquire, extra combat feats as well as things very useful to fighting thieves like uncanny dodge. The fact that the character concept is better fitted by a MC combo is not a sign of a problem but rather a sign of the strength of the new mc rules and their ability to help you meet your class.</p><p></p><p>Second, both the PHb AND the DMG give sections on Gm altering classes when he feels its a good idea. They even go into some do's and don't sna d such but in the end the Gm there has to handle balance issues. </p><p></p><p>Three, while a gm could let you trade off feats like heavy armor for something else, he *should* consider balance. I do not view "heavy armor" as much of a loss for a character class which is going to not want to be slowed anyway. Consider... a character in plate with a 12 dex gets an Ac of 19. A character with an 18 dex in chain shirt has an Ac of 18. If the class is going to want a high dex ANYWAY and wants to avoid skill penalties (for all those rogue skills) then the difference is almost insignificant.</p><p></p><p>So, a wise Gm, will keep that in mind when allowing trade offs. he might allow you to lose heavy and medium armor but probably ought not to allow a "in tade" useful feat for each.</p><p></p><p>As a balance-o-meter, comsider the following...</p><p></p><p>How many rogue character players have been willing to spend two feats to gain heavy armor? How many have been willing to spend one feat for medium armor? if the answer is almost none, thats a good indication of how much the class is losing. if a guy wants to turn a fighter class into a rogue class and "turn in" his armor feats... use this to judge how much he is actually losing.</p><p></p><p>Second look... if you were to waive a magic wands and allow all rogues to have armor medium and armor heavy for free feats, how many would be rushing out to use them? Few in all likelihood (and those probably only looking for mithril breastplates, 1 Ac superior to chain shirt.)</p><p></p><p>In short, if a character came to me with this concept, as you defined it, asking for class changes... i would instead suggest he grepresent it with a rogue-fighter multiclass as that combo will represent it well.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Petrosian, post: 215278, member: 1149"] My points are... first, not every character concept is buildable by ONE core class. The reason 3e has the loose multiclassing rules is to allow you to build the character "mechanics" to fit the concept. In the character you described, i would definitely see him as a fight-er-rogue and probably about evenly split. that gives him the skills he would seem to acquire, extra combat feats as well as things very useful to fighting thieves like uncanny dodge. The fact that the character concept is better fitted by a MC combo is not a sign of a problem but rather a sign of the strength of the new mc rules and their ability to help you meet your class. Second, both the PHb AND the DMG give sections on Gm altering classes when he feels its a good idea. They even go into some do's and don't sna d such but in the end the Gm there has to handle balance issues. Three, while a gm could let you trade off feats like heavy armor for something else, he *should* consider balance. I do not view "heavy armor" as much of a loss for a character class which is going to not want to be slowed anyway. Consider... a character in plate with a 12 dex gets an Ac of 19. A character with an 18 dex in chain shirt has an Ac of 18. If the class is going to want a high dex ANYWAY and wants to avoid skill penalties (for all those rogue skills) then the difference is almost insignificant. So, a wise Gm, will keep that in mind when allowing trade offs. he might allow you to lose heavy and medium armor but probably ought not to allow a "in tade" useful feat for each. As a balance-o-meter, comsider the following... How many rogue character players have been willing to spend two feats to gain heavy armor? How many have been willing to spend one feat for medium armor? if the answer is almost none, thats a good indication of how much the class is losing. if a guy wants to turn a fighter class into a rogue class and "turn in" his armor feats... use this to judge how much he is actually losing. Second look... if you were to waive a magic wands and allow all rogues to have armor medium and armor heavy for free feats, how many would be rushing out to use them? Few in all likelihood (and those probably only looking for mithril breastplates, 1 Ac superior to chain shirt.) In short, if a character came to me with this concept, as you defined it, asking for class changes... i would instead suggest he grepresent it with a rogue-fighter multiclass as that combo will represent it well. [/QUOTE]
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