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Message: <blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 6663050" data-attributes="member: 86653">There's also the years of training factor that shouldn't be dismissed. The same arguments you're making for keeping race-based bonuses (which almost no one is arguing should go away, for what it's worth), can be made for including class-based bonuses. It's not purely genetics that determines who or what a person is or becomes throughout their life. Environment and passion and training play an equally if not more important role. Race isn't something that should need to be 'overcome' mechanically in a fantasy game. A player who wants to play a forest gnome paladin shouldn't have a deficit to overcome to be on par with a mountain dwarf paladin. Making the argument that 'lore this, or stories that' is more than a bit limited in thinking. Before Drizzt is was just known that all dark elves were pure evil. All keeping race-based stat bonuses does is reinforce dated stereotypes and limit players' imaginations.You don't get many dwarf wizards at the table because they're mechanically hindered, which reinforces some of the terrible fantasy fiction stereotypes, and the few players and DMs who internalize these things and go on to write fantasy fiction then include these stereotypes in their fiction, which is then used to reinforce the stereotypes at the table.I don't know about you, but after 30+ years of playing minor variations on the same basic tropes and stereotypes, I'd welcome the breath of fresh air that would be completely open (and mechanically supported) race/class combinations. I mean honestly, why the hell not? It's fantasy. A dotty old man with a pointy hat and a weak heart haplessly wandering through a death-trap filled with big nasty beasties trying to kill and eat him who, when those beasties attack, mumbles a few words to create a massive ball of fire to launch at his enemies but then somehow forgets how to do that is utterly believable, but a particular gnome being stronger than a particular half-orc is not? Come on. You could similarly reinforce the racial stereotypes by just including a bit of text saying that half-orc tend to be stronger and prefer melee fighting classes. Done. Same effect as a set race-based bonus, without hamstringing players who want their characters to go against type.</blockquote>

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