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<blockquote data-quote="thedungeondelver" data-source="post: 3731512" data-attributes="member: 34865">This analogy is based in emotion, not in fact or reason.&nbsp; There is no trope in Monopoly that involves players sitting out for any period of time because Monopoly is abstract in the extreme.&nbsp; If Monopoly was a more detailed, granular examination of real estate, &quot;putting a hotel on a property&quot; would mean that for a set amount of time, no rent could be collected on it, there would be traffic constriction, worker accidents, etc. etc.Life for those who've chosen to win their way by sword and spell in DUNGEONS &amp; DRAGONS is fraught with dangers.&nbsp; Removing the dangers means removing the challenge, QED.This is why I have never understood the continual &quot;softening&quot; of D&amp;D, nor the applause such notions get when it is suggested that perfectly valid hazards are &quot;unfair&quot; and &quot;anti-player&quot;.Seriously, if that's how people feel honestly and truly - that players should be unchallenged, unassailable, and indefatigable, then why aren't AMBER and EXALTED (both games where the players are essentially gods) vastly more popular than D&amp;D?Arguments that there is no precedence in any fantasy literature for such will be gleefully ignored - the deleterious effects of encountering &quot;negative energy&quot; in fantasy and SF literature are too numerous to catalog here.I think someone else in this thread made a good argument vis-a-vis the whole &quot;level draining is punishment&quot; when they said that hit point loss, too, was punishment.&nbsp; Is that the next &quot;sacred cow that has to go&quot;?&nbsp; The players just plan well and are rewarded with a victory without actually having to do anything?[/font]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="thedungeondelver, post: 3731512, member: 34865"] [font=century gothic] This analogy is based in emotion, not in fact or reason. There is no trope in Monopoly that involves players sitting out for any period of time because Monopoly is abstract in the extreme. If Monopoly was a more detailed, granular examination of real estate, "putting a hotel on a property" would mean that for a set amount of time, no rent could be collected on it, there would be traffic constriction, worker accidents, etc. etc. Life for those who've chosen to win their way by sword and spell in [b]DUNGEONS & DRAGONS[/B] is fraught with dangers. Removing the dangers means removing the challenge, QED. This is why I have never understood the continual "softening" of [b]D&D[/B], nor the applause such notions get when it is suggested that perfectly valid hazards are "unfair" and "anti-player". Seriously, if that's how people feel honestly and truly - that players should be unchallenged, unassailable, and indefatigable, then why aren't [b]AMBER[/B] and [b]EXALTED[/B] (both games where the players are essentially gods) vastly more popular than [b]D&D[/b]? Arguments that there is no precedence in any fantasy literature for such will be gleefully ignored - the deleterious effects of encountering "negative energy" in fantasy and SF literature are too numerous to catalog here. I think someone else in this thread made a good argument [i]vis-a-vis[/i] the whole "level draining is punishment" when they said that hit point loss, too, was punishment. Is that the next "sacred cow that has to go"? The players just plan well and are rewarded with a victory without actually having to do anything? [/font] [/font] [/QUOTE]

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