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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Removing Attack Rolls -- and maybe more? (Game Design / Theory Discussion)
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<blockquote data-quote="p_johnston" data-source="post: 8571564" data-attributes="member: 7016849"><p>So if your just pooling all attacks together before all attack damage together before applying DR it does help with balance. With that I think that it would make trying the system out playable, however I would still be hesitant to use it.</p><p></p><p>There are still a few issues</p><p><strong>1) </strong>Pooling all attacks as one before applying DR introduces a few problems of it's own. The one that comes to mind immediately is that it means you have effectively eliminated multi attack from the game. Now everyone just gets to roll more dice when they would get more attacks. There are two problems I can see with this</p><p><strong> 1a) </strong>You can't split your attack anymore. Before If someone with three attacks started to attack an enemy and brought them down with the first one they could move on and finish off the remaining two attacks on another enemy. Now your just going to be pooling every attack together to make sure you bypass the DR.</p><p><strong> 1b)</strong> It will (I suspect) make a lot of classes and playstyles feel a lot more samey. Playing a great weapon barbarian, a duel wielding fighter and a rogue currently feel a lot different mostly based on the number of attacks you end up getting. Now all three just get a handful of dice to throw each time.</p><p><strong>2)</strong> You still have problems with DR when it comes to attacks where you don't get to do multi attack. The biggest example is opportunity attacks would kinda suck in this system for anyone except rogues. But the cleave feature of great weapon master is another example of something that gets really nerfed. </p><p><strong>3) </strong>Exploding damage die are a cool idea but on average won't add all that much damage (average of about 1 extra point of damage)</p><p><strong>4) </strong>This ends up cutting out advantage which will end up effecting a lot of abilities and spells. </p><p> <strong>4b) </strong>no advantage combined with no splitting attacks will likely end up making combat less dynamic then it already is. Why bother tripping, using the help action, or anything else if you can't get advantage? 5e already heavily incentivizes martials to just run up and mindlessly attack a single target. This just makes that worse. </p><p><strong>5) </strong>There are a lot of minor rules, abilities, and spells that become much better, much worse, or just don't work if your never rolling to attack. </p><p>For example</p><p>Stunning strike becomes a whole lot better when you no longer have to roll to hit. Same with paladin smites, arcane archer arrows, all blade cantrips, etc. </p><p>How does bardic inspiration work now without attack rolls?</p><p>To flesh out point 4 a bit, how does advantage work? Am I just as effective hitting people while blind and prone as I am regular? </p><p>Connected does blindness/deafness now just not do anything?</p><p>How about the half-orc/barbarian extra dice on a crit feature?</p><p>How does magic missile work now that everything is doing what use to be it's niche?</p><p>And these are just the abilties that I can come up with off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more that are similarly broken.</p><p></p><p>To reiterate I do think that the idea of a system where rolling to hit isn't a thing is interesting. I do not think that trying to hack 5e into being that system is a good way to go.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="p_johnston, post: 8571564, member: 7016849"] So if your just pooling all attacks together before all attack damage together before applying DR it does help with balance. With that I think that it would make trying the system out playable, however I would still be hesitant to use it. There are still a few issues [B]1) [/B]Pooling all attacks as one before applying DR introduces a few problems of it's own. The one that comes to mind immediately is that it means you have effectively eliminated multi attack from the game. Now everyone just gets to roll more dice when they would get more attacks. There are two problems I can see with this [B] 1a) [/B]You can't split your attack anymore. Before If someone with three attacks started to attack an enemy and brought them down with the first one they could move on and finish off the remaining two attacks on another enemy. Now your just going to be pooling every attack together to make sure you bypass the DR. [B] 1b)[/B] It will (I suspect) make a lot of classes and playstyles feel a lot more samey. Playing a great weapon barbarian, a duel wielding fighter and a rogue currently feel a lot different mostly based on the number of attacks you end up getting. Now all three just get a handful of dice to throw each time. [B]2)[/B] You still have problems with DR when it comes to attacks where you don't get to do multi attack. The biggest example is opportunity attacks would kinda suck in this system for anyone except rogues. But the cleave feature of great weapon master is another example of something that gets really nerfed. [B]3) [/B]Exploding damage die are a cool idea but on average won't add all that much damage (average of about 1 extra point of damage) [B]4) [/B]This ends up cutting out advantage which will end up effecting a lot of abilities and spells. [B]4b) [/B]no advantage combined with no splitting attacks will likely end up making combat less dynamic then it already is. Why bother tripping, using the help action, or anything else if you can't get advantage? 5e already heavily incentivizes martials to just run up and mindlessly attack a single target. This just makes that worse. [B]5) [/B]There are a lot of minor rules, abilities, and spells that become much better, much worse, or just don't work if your never rolling to attack. For example Stunning strike becomes a whole lot better when you no longer have to roll to hit. Same with paladin smites, arcane archer arrows, all blade cantrips, etc. How does bardic inspiration work now without attack rolls? To flesh out point 4 a bit, how does advantage work? Am I just as effective hitting people while blind and prone as I am regular? Connected does blindness/deafness now just not do anything? How about the half-orc/barbarian extra dice on a crit feature? How does magic missile work now that everything is doing what use to be it's niche? And these are just the abilties that I can come up with off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more that are similarly broken. To reiterate I do think that the idea of a system where rolling to hit isn't a thing is interesting. I do not think that trying to hack 5e into being that system is a good way to go. [/QUOTE]
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