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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 2154312" data-attributes="member: 2067">This is incorrect. One can get clerical magic without gods. One also cannot know the gods via clerical magic. I've got a monothesitic campaign setting where one of the main themes is the unknowable of the ultimate devine -- and I don't curtail the use of magic in the slightest. Within the current rules, it's quite possible to have nine different faiths each espousing The Truth and be completely unable to prove any of them wrong. This works, but it takes a bit of restructuring to do and be fair. You can't just open up the magic system as it is now -- why be a wizard when you can be a cleric with fireball, d8 hp, a good BAB, and armor? You could force everyone to be a wizard, but I'd think you wouldn't see much use of buffs or divinations. People would focus on explosive spells (assuming combat as the main campaign activity) and have a handful of cures for when they're needed. By the rules now, the reason that clerics don't get the largest boom spells is because they have other features that make them talented in combat, and can add (mostly) defensive magic. This adds strategy and versaltility to combat. The cleric fills a role that goes far beyond a Hit Point Despenser.As for representing a versatile spellcaster, I agree, the Bard is the absolute best. Take away the name &quot;Bard,&quot; change up a few skills, alter the flavor text of the music to be something else, maybe mess with the spell list a *little* bit, and you've got an incredibly good supportive spellcaster.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 2154312, member: 2067"] This is incorrect. One can get clerical magic without gods. One also cannot know the gods via clerical magic. I've got a monothesitic campaign setting where one of the main themes is the unknowable of the ultimate devine -- and I don't curtail the use of magic in the slightest. Within the current rules, it's quite possible to have nine different faiths each espousing The Truth and be completely unable to prove any of them wrong. This works, but it takes a bit of restructuring to do and be fair. You can't just open up the magic system as it is now -- why be a wizard when you can be a cleric with fireball, d8 hp, a good BAB, and armor? You could force everyone to be a wizard, but I'd think you wouldn't see much use of buffs or divinations. People would focus on explosive spells (assuming combat as the main campaign activity) and have a handful of cures for when they're needed. By the rules now, the reason that clerics don't get the largest boom spells is because they have other features that make them talented in combat, and can add (mostly) defensive magic. This adds strategy and versaltility to combat. The cleric fills a role that goes far beyond a Hit Point Despenser. As for representing a versatile spellcaster, I agree, the Bard is the absolute best. Take away the name "Bard," change up a few skills, alter the flavor text of the music to be something else, maybe mess with the spell list a *little* bit, and you've got an incredibly good supportive spellcaster. [/QUOTE]

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