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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Removing feats as a universal class mechanic
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6116548" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>Well, this was pretty much feats in 3e <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> In that edition, feats were designed for a lot of different purposes, and am actually fine with that.</p><p></p><p>What I was suggesting here however, is that the designer <em>first</em> should decide what they want the purpose of feats in 5e to be, because it doesn't have to be the same as in 3e, and then "populate" the core game with a good number of feats.</p><p></p><p>I was totally ok with 3e feats which build on existing class mechanics, because the player could choose e.g. to boost her wizard's own features in a few different ways (metamagic, spell focus, item creation) OR instead boosts her generic features as a character (toughness, imp.initiative, ST boosts...). It was fine, it was like choosing between "improve your wizardness" vs improve something else. I actually would have also liked racial feats in core to "improve your elvennes" for instance.</p><p></p><p>But OTOH I would also be fine with a different approach limited to only generic feats.</p><p></p><p>What I am not so fine with, is going back to a Fighter class that just gets a few more feats numerically, but basically nothing of its own, and everybody else can easily cherry-pick the combat feats they want which basically means to get potentially the same goodies of the Fighter. This would be the same as a non-spellcaster who could cherry-pick spells from the Wizard, Druid, and Cleric list freely, getting <em>just</em> what they want but without taking levels in those classes (which among other things means not having to get a small HD and low attack bonuses). </p><p></p><p>This cherrypicking is not wrong per se... but it should be either for all or for no one! A game where <strong><strong>everyone </strong></strong>can cherrypick features from other classes is GOOD. A game where <strong>nobody </strong>can is GOOD. A game where everyone can cherrypick the Fighter but the Fighter cannot cherrypick the others is BAD. I don't think they have any plan to allow Ranger's favored enemy, Ranger/Paladin's spells or Cleric/Paladin's energy channeling to be available to anybody through feats.</p><p></p><p>This is why I suggested to go back to Fighter's exclusive Maneuvers, and then making "<strong>multiclassing feats</strong>" (e.g. "You gain one Fighter's Maneuver", "You gain one Rogue's Skill Trick", "You gain one Wizard's spells usable 1/day"), put them under a separate heading that says "<em>allow these feats in your game if you want everybody to cherrypick on other classes' features</em>".</p><p></p><p>This incidentally allows 4e-style multiclassing IIRC.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 6116548, member: 1465"] Well, this was pretty much feats in 3e :) In that edition, feats were designed for a lot of different purposes, and am actually fine with that. What I was suggesting here however, is that the designer [I]first[/I] should decide what they want the purpose of feats in 5e to be, because it doesn't have to be the same as in 3e, and then "populate" the core game with a good number of feats. I was totally ok with 3e feats which build on existing class mechanics, because the player could choose e.g. to boost her wizard's own features in a few different ways (metamagic, spell focus, item creation) OR instead boosts her generic features as a character (toughness, imp.initiative, ST boosts...). It was fine, it was like choosing between "improve your wizardness" vs improve something else. I actually would have also liked racial feats in core to "improve your elvennes" for instance. But OTOH I would also be fine with a different approach limited to only generic feats. What I am not so fine with, is going back to a Fighter class that just gets a few more feats numerically, but basically nothing of its own, and everybody else can easily cherry-pick the combat feats they want which basically means to get potentially the same goodies of the Fighter. This would be the same as a non-spellcaster who could cherry-pick spells from the Wizard, Druid, and Cleric list freely, getting [I]just[/I] what they want but without taking levels in those classes (which among other things means not having to get a small HD and low attack bonuses). This cherrypicking is not wrong per se... but it should be either for all or for no one! A game where [B][B]everyone [/B][/B]can cherrypick features from other classes is GOOD. A game where [B]nobody [/B]can is GOOD. A game where everyone can cherrypick the Fighter but the Fighter cannot cherrypick the others is BAD. I don't think they have any plan to allow Ranger's favored enemy, Ranger/Paladin's spells or Cleric/Paladin's energy channeling to be available to anybody through feats. This is why I suggested to go back to Fighter's exclusive Maneuvers, and then making "[B]multiclassing feats[/B]" (e.g. "You gain one Fighter's Maneuver", "You gain one Rogue's Skill Trick", "You gain one Wizard's spells usable 1/day"), put them under a separate heading that says "[I]allow these feats in your game if you want everybody to cherrypick on other classes' features[/I]". This incidentally allows 4e-style multiclassing IIRC. [/QUOTE]
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