NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4915796" data-attributes="member: 2067">"They're not really the same! It's all in your head! You're doing it wrong! Everything has immense variety!"...not exactly a helpful response to the very real problem of same-ness present in a lot of 4e. I'm a player and DM of 4e, and I have experienced it. Often, frequently, and annoyingly (now, no one has played the psion yet, but I do like how the psion and monk start to loosen up the strict powers system). Saying "Clearly, you don't know what you're talking about!" is not a very constructive discussion point, and basically just ends up making you sound like a condescending jerk.Now, that same-ness might not be a huge problem for you -- people want different levels of variety, and it's entirely possible that 4e is diverse enough for you, but that certainly doesn't mean that it's very diverse. True 20, for all it's keen-ness, isn't very diverse (to put in another system that isn't as edition-warz-y). You can play almost anything with the system -- giant fighting robots or intrigue-based spy games, or even a passable Call of Cthulu, or whatever. But it isn't extremely diverse. 4e is more diverse than that, but less diverse than 3e. It is far less accepting of things from out of left field -- the crux the balance teeters on is much narrower than it was before (if it even was before). It's okay to say "4e is plenty diverse for me! I get diversity in areas X, Y, Z, Q, and R! Maybe try to focus your attentions there?"It's less helpful to say "4e is diverse, and if you think otherwise, clearly you are wrong."See the distinction?Now, about the OP, I agree that 4e certainly could stomach totally non-powers-based design. It's true that we probably won't see it from WotC, and we probably won't see it under the GSL, but there are ways it could be done (an alternate "level advancement" keyed to these other abilities instead of powers, for instance). But without anyone actually doing anything about the problem of same-ness in 4e, it will remain a problem, and other systems that handle diversity better will be a better choice. It won't always be a problem for everyone, of course, and trying new things within that system (like with the psion) is a good idea that might broaden the variety significantly. It seems the 4e designers are aware of the issue, and would like to alleviate it a little bit.</blockquote>

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