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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rechan" data-source="post: 4916477" data-attributes="member: 54846">We get that with class features, though. And the class features really do make the classes (within their role) feel very different to me:A fighter seriously rocks the mark. No one else gets free attacks any time a monster LOOKS at someone nastily. Compare that with the Swordmage, who can reduce damage dealt to an ally. Nobody can reduce damage. While Paladins get auto-damage. Druids get to shapechange. And not the shapechanging Wardens get. Shamans get a Buddy (that can very much rock the casba with proper positioning). Which works very different from the Buddy that beastmaster rangers get. Warlords boost people's initiative and give them beenies when they use action points. Bards 1) get bonuses to heal you outside of combat, 2) can multi-class into multiple classes, 3) get bonuses to untrained skills, 4) free boost to bluff checks. Clerics can heal like no one's business. That's not really their class feature,  but yeah.Warlocks get extra stuff just for killing their target. Which can vary from teleporting around to getting temp HP. The problem with that is that if you set it up in such a manner that the Party is going to Suck without X, then that means you gotta have that class or you're going to suck. See 3e Clerics and Healing. If rogues are the only guys that can do X, well you're boned if you don't have a rogue and the situation calls for X. That also means that if that class is the only class that can do it, that if you want to do that, then that's your only option. Part of what 4e wanted to do is that anyone of any role could stand in for any other character of that same role - you'll inevitably need a healer, but you have more options than just "Cleric", that actually can heal competently.And while I see your point, KM, about "the progression is the same, ho-hum", I think one thing being neglected IS the Paragon Path/Epic Destiny. They add more class features, that can vary. Granted, they're not as potent as the class's initial features. So perhaps one avenue is to grant extra class features at each tier. Not suping up existing class features, but giving new, additional ones that differentiate a paragon Fighter from a Heroic fighter, aside from numbers, number of powers and PP.</blockquote>

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