Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Removing homogenity from 4e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4917497" data-attributes="member: 710"><p>The problem with removing homogeneity is that there are also other goals that the system wants to achieve. The system aims at a balance between characters. And this balance is seen "short-term" - e.g. per encounter as the smallest relevant unit. I think going away from this goal is not desirable. You are just removing one issue and replace it with another. </p><p></p><p>One take to deal with the homogeneous is to change the rules for resting.</p><p>For example, let's say in the current setup a at-will has the power of X, an encounter power has the power of 2X, and a daily power of 3X.</p><p>A typical combat might be 8 rounds. Character A has 3 encounter powers and one daily power. Character B has 1 encounter power and 2 daily powers.</p><p>Character A has a total power of 4X +6X +3X (=13X) in one encounter, and 4X + 6X(10X) in every other. Character B has 4X + 2X + 9X (15X) in one encounter and 4X + 2X (6X) in every other that day.</p><p>If the characters go through 3 encounters before taking an extended rest, Character A is better of (power = 33X). If the characters go through 1 encounter and then take an extended rest, Character B is better off (27X). </p><p></p><p>So, it is in interest of Character B if they take an extended rest early. It is not exactly a bad idea for Character A to do it, too - he has, after all, a daily resource. (And that is true with 3E hit points or 4E healing surges). But in gameplay, it turns out Character B is more effective then Character A.</p><p></p><p>If we remove the concept of extended rest/sleeping as the way to recover long-term resources, we could get away from that. Say hello to Milestones.</p><p></p><p>Every time a character completes a Milestone, he could get back his "daily" powers. If we use the 4E definition of that, this means every two encounters. </p><p>Character A could be a Fighter. Being a martial character, he of course has no daily powers, that would be ridiculous and unrealistic, as everyone knows. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p>He has 4 encounter powers (each 2X power). Between Milestones, this is 8X.</p><p></p><p>Character B is a Mage. Magic is very difficult. In combat, he usually swings a staff. Magic is difficult to control, and it takes a while for the mind to recover from casting a powerful spell. So he has 2 daily powers, each at 4X power. Between milestones, that's 8X. </p><p></p><p>Character C is a Cleric. Divine magic is not as strong as arcane magic, but the gods provide simpler prayers that can be done in a few minutes by a true believers. C has 1 daily power at 4X and 2 encounter powers at 2X. Between Milestones, that 8X.</p><p></p><p>Of course, now multiclassing is probably a mess. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> And does it make sense to have Healing Surges recover too at this pace?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 4917497, member: 710"] The problem with removing homogeneity is that there are also other goals that the system wants to achieve. The system aims at a balance between characters. And this balance is seen "short-term" - e.g. per encounter as the smallest relevant unit. I think going away from this goal is not desirable. You are just removing one issue and replace it with another. One take to deal with the homogeneous is to change the rules for resting. For example, let's say in the current setup a at-will has the power of X, an encounter power has the power of 2X, and a daily power of 3X. A typical combat might be 8 rounds. Character A has 3 encounter powers and one daily power. Character B has 1 encounter power and 2 daily powers. Character A has a total power of 4X +6X +3X (=13X) in one encounter, and 4X + 6X(10X) in every other. Character B has 4X + 2X + 9X (15X) in one encounter and 4X + 2X (6X) in every other that day. If the characters go through 3 encounters before taking an extended rest, Character A is better of (power = 33X). If the characters go through 1 encounter and then take an extended rest, Character B is better off (27X). So, it is in interest of Character B if they take an extended rest early. It is not exactly a bad idea for Character A to do it, too - he has, after all, a daily resource. (And that is true with 3E hit points or 4E healing surges). But in gameplay, it turns out Character B is more effective then Character A. If we remove the concept of extended rest/sleeping as the way to recover long-term resources, we could get away from that. Say hello to Milestones. Every time a character completes a Milestone, he could get back his "daily" powers. If we use the 4E definition of that, this means every two encounters. Character A could be a Fighter. Being a martial character, he of course has no daily powers, that would be ridiculous and unrealistic, as everyone knows. ;) He has 4 encounter powers (each 2X power). Between Milestones, this is 8X. Character B is a Mage. Magic is very difficult. In combat, he usually swings a staff. Magic is difficult to control, and it takes a while for the mind to recover from casting a powerful spell. So he has 2 daily powers, each at 4X power. Between milestones, that's 8X. Character C is a Cleric. Divine magic is not as strong as arcane magic, but the gods provide simpler prayers that can be done in a few minutes by a true believers. C has 1 daily power at 4X and 2 encounter powers at 2X. Between Milestones, that 8X. Of course, now multiclassing is probably a mess. ;) And does it make sense to have Healing Surges recover too at this pace? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Removing homogenity from 4e
Top