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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4919971" data-attributes="member: 22779">Yes, because all traps are ridiculously easy to find.  Yup, if all traps are simply leaf covered vice jaws, then sure, no problem.  Then again, why bother with a thief at all in that case?  However, IME, most traps are significantly harder to find.  Which, in turn, led to every group turning into special forces members, and all sorts of methods for opening a chest.-------------------Anyway, on the issue of mechanical homogeneity leading to homogeneous characters, I have to say I disagree with the basic premise. Step away from D&D for a second.  There are any number of systems where every character has access to exactly the same mechanics with no variation at all.  Most skill based systems like GURPS or Savage Worlds, for example.  In GURPS, every character is made using a pool of points and no character has any unique mechanics to differentiate one from another.  Same in Savage Worlds - 5 points between your stats, 15 points for skills, 1 major or 2 minor hinderances and possibly 1 edge.  Done.Yet, the variety of characters in those systems is pretty wide.  I've never heard anyone complain about sameyness in their GURPS characters.  Yet, no GURPS character has any niche protection whatsoever.  Nor does any Savage World's character.The "If all you have is a hammer" line has been repeated a few times here.  Yet, do we really need to use nails, glue and screws to build characters in order to gain uniqueness?  Does it matter if I put it together with a Phillips or Robertson screw?  To abuse the analogy anyway.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The obvious difference between skill based systems and 4e D&D is the class system.  The question is, does the package of skills you gain with each class (and by skills I mean more than just things like stealth or perception, but also class abilities and powers, which are generally covered by point buy systems like Savage Worlds) provide enough uniqueness to distinguish one character from another?  Some people are claiming that it does and others claim that it doesn't.  I'm on the fence.  I don't know.  But, I do disagree  with the basic premise that mechanical diversity is required in order to make diverse characters.  Skill based, or point buy systems show that to be wrong.</blockquote>

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