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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4929617" data-attributes="member: 7635">It came off sounding like "3e classes are just blocks of proto-class stuff that, if you take enough of one certain type you get something resembling an archetype vs. 4e, where archetype is tightly defined and regulated" so it seemed odd a few posts down your were reversing and essentially saying "Oh, you can play a 4e class as a collection of proto-class stuff too, just file off the names. See, isn't 4e versatile?"Then again, I'm of the opinion that classes should be more generic and versatile (but not to the point of a point-buy system). For example, a FIGHTER should be good at different types of fighting: sword 'n board, two-handed weapons, twf, archery, thrown weapons, etc. (He can even be good at unarmed striking if he wants, though he shouldn't challenge the monk for the supernaturally good at it). In 2e, I could specialize in a melee weapon, a 2hander, or a bow. I could dual-wield (at a penalty negated by my dex, and later with a non-weapon prof).In 3e, I could spend feats to become good at one (or more!) styles of combat, meaning I could switch from melee to range at no loss of effectiveness provided had the requisite feats. In 4e, I can be great at sword-n-board OR two-handed fighting. I cannot dual wield effectively unless I have Martial Power, and I cannot do anything with a bow except make basic attacks. The latter two fighting styles have been given exclusively to the ranger to make up for the fact rangers lost all their rangerly abilities (animal companions, spells, camouflage, tracking superiority, favored foes) they had in 1e, 2e and 3e. Same with the rogue Imaro mentioned. I played an elven rogue. Sweet, I thought, I get shortbow/longbow free! How elfy! Until I saw I couldn't use a single rogue power with either bow. So my elfy-elf rogue had a bow he couldn't use except for basics and he carried a crossbow so he could use sly flourish. How homoge... you get the idea.(Oddly, eladrin can use their longsword for rogue powers. They can use their longsword with wizard-spells too, both for the cost of a feat each. Yet elves can't use their bows for rogue powers nor can dwarves use their warhammers. I guess WotC is happy to have a new kewl-elf race with a unique IP name so they don't have to share them with OGCers, Tolkienists, and WoW players.) And don't get me started on dual-wielding rogues. I have a dozen reaper and DDM "rogue" minis that I guess are rangers now!Granted, few fighters did specialize in archery, and I saw plenty of rapier-crossbow rogues (esp. after PH2-3.5 came out) but now, if I plan on using my powers beyond "basic attack" I'm FORCED to give up ranged attacks as a fighter or I must use a crossbow, sling or thrown weapon as a rogue. Or play a ranger I guess.</blockquote>

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