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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 4933664" data-attributes="member: 957">If it doesn't work for you then you should play a different game, just as I don't play 4E.Because &quot;archer&quot; is going to include under it all archers that know stuff, the archer list will be longer for me as well.&nbsp; But I find the literally thousands of valid options under &quot;archer who knows&quot; stuff to be more than adequate.&nbsp; And I find it bizarre that anyone else would think that list is too short.&nbsp; I'm not saying that you have to like 3E.&nbsp; I'm saying that claiming the options for archer that knows stuff options are unreasonably limited in 3E is like me claiming 4E is bad because you can not make a guy who is good at fighting with daggers.&nbsp; There are lots of valid options.&nbsp; The vast array of splatbooks and 3PP stuff put tons of options at your fingertips, but for me personally, if someone had come to me the day I got my 3E PH and said they wanted a diplomatic fighter or an archer who knows stuff, I would have easily been able to make it happen.&nbsp; And yes, I might have &quot;made up&quot; a knowledge class skill feat.&nbsp; If you have a problem with that then I see the issue as being in you, not in the game.&nbsp; Which is fine, of course, the game needs to cater to you, not the other way around.&nbsp; But the game not fitting your needs does not make it bad.&nbsp; 4E does not fit my needs because it is too homogeneous (among other things).&nbsp; That doesn't make it implicitly bad.&nbsp; It just makes it a very poor choice for me.&nbsp; And obviously this also applies to quite a large group of other people as well.I can give you ways to solve your 3E problem.I have not see any ways to remove the problems that come with &quot;the math works&quot; in 4E.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 4933664, member: 957"] If it doesn't work for you then you should play a different game, just as I don't play 4E. Because "archer" is going to include under it all archers that know stuff, the archer list will be longer for me as well. But I find the literally thousands of valid options under "archer who knows" stuff to be more than adequate. And I find it bizarre that anyone else would think that list is too short. I'm not saying that you have to like 3E. I'm saying that claiming the options for archer that knows stuff options are unreasonably limited in 3E is like me claiming 4E is bad because you can not make a guy who is good at fighting with daggers. There are lots of valid options. The vast array of splatbooks and 3PP stuff put tons of options at your fingertips, but for me personally, if someone had come to me the day I got my 3E PH and said they wanted a diplomatic fighter or an archer who knows stuff, I would have easily been able to make it happen. And yes, I might have "made up" a knowledge class skill feat. If you have a problem with that then I see the issue as being in you, not in the game. Which is fine, of course, the game needs to cater to you, not the other way around. But the game not fitting your needs does not make it bad. 4E does not fit my needs because it is too homogeneous (among other things). That doesn't make it implicitly bad. It just makes it a very poor choice for me. And obviously this also applies to quite a large group of other people as well. I can give you ways to solve your 3E problem. I have not see any ways to remove the problems that come with "the math works" in 4E. [/QUOTE]

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