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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4935798" data-attributes="member: 22779">I didn't claim that you outright "couldn't" make Suave McFightswell in 3e.  I pretty much assumed that we'd get there eventually, although, I admit for the first bit, I was getting a bit worried.  3e came through in the end though.The entire purpose of the sidebar, and I appologise for the massive side track this thread took, was to show that you don't really have the options that some were claiming.  The claim on the table that started this whole thing was that we had buckets and buckets of choices for every possible concept.My point was to show that you don't.  Looking at it, I think my reasons might have been flawed.  It's not that classes balance combat vs non-combat ability but rather classes are closed in by concept - fighters fight, they don't talk.  Ok, that's too strong, but, see MerricB's posts for a better phrasing than mine.If you stick with a single concept - either combat or non-combat, you have a bajillion choices to fit pretty much anything.  Short Bow Wielding Sneaky Guy?  Scout, Ninja, rogue, ranger, and probably a dozen more that will fit the bill.  Knowledge guy who knows what man not wot of?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Gobs and gobs of choices.But, when you start mixing the concepts, your choices get whittled down considerably.Unless, of course, you include casters in which case, you just pull the "I Win" lever of most utility type spells in 3e and you can be anything.  But, that's an issue with core casters and the proliferation of spells in the system moreso than a failing of the system itself.  There's a reason pretty much every caster that came out after the PHB massively restricts the spell lists.</blockquote>

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