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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 4938044" data-attributes="member: 957">fanboy, You are only pulling out a piece of the equation.Your mage has nothing whatsoever going for it in terms of acrobatics.  And yet because "the math works" this character still succeeds 45% of the time on a moderate challenge.  Yeah, +30 is very different than +12.  But that distinction is misleading.  The establishment of target DCs is just as critically important in the math.  Once you get to the level of auto-success, additional pluses are pointless.  And the math is built to make certain that even your gimped out mage is pretty damn good at acrobatics when all is said and done.  (You have demonstrated the nod to the rogue for "no need to roll" so 1 point for that)And if you look over the whole skill list you will see pretty much similar numbers for the two.Now look at defenses.  Their ACs are nearly identical and the others are right around 30 with the rogue trading off a bit of fort and will for Ref.And their attack bonuses with the attacks they will be using routinely are again right in the same zone.What you have demonstrated with your own selections is that a worst case scenario is 1 tick short of 50/50 chance for a moderate task.  (and even "hard" is still 20%, 1 in 5 for a completely untrained and untalented fish out of water at a task so-called "hard")The difference between 12 and 30 is a red herring because when the players of these two characters are going to roll their D20 compare their total to the target DC and get the same answer over and over again.  And even for moderate, or even hard, tasks, the allowed range of existence scales between quite competent and has extra pluses that don't even matter.Add in monster building for how the attacks and defenses are established by monster level and the same result will emerge.Remember, this is a relative analysis.  Compared to what I like, your example is a fine demonstration of the homogeneity in 4E.</blockquote>

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